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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not swap land with my neighbour?

531 replies

TreeTrials · 23/06/2021 15:44

Our neighbours are wanting to renovate their garage to incorporate it into their house. It sits alongside our garden boundary wall which is at an angle. Than angle makes it hard for them to do the changes they want because the room would be very narrow at the bottom.

They have previously talked to us about swapping land so they have a more regular shaped room. We expressed reluctance as we don't need the land they were offering and we have some mature bushes/trees growing out of the wall (it's a wide very old stone one). These trees and bushes provide privacy screening so that we don't see their house. If they are cut down, or die due to disturbed roots, we'll be staring at the side of their house rather than greenery. That was the end of the conversation.

They have now sent through technical drawings for their proposal and the proposed wall for the renovated garage appears be to on our land. It feels a bit cheeky given how we'd left things.

Should we let them proceed? The land is the corner of our garden and isn't used for anything useful - it's very dark and full of garden junk. I feel for them that the shape of the land makes their plans pretty hard to achieve with the boundary plan as it is.

My main concern is loss of privacy from the loss of the trees. But then I'm wondering what the situation would be if they change their plans to follow the boundary - they may still end up killing the trees as I imagine the roots will be disturbed whatever work they do. If this is going to be the case (not that I want them to kill our trees!) should we just suck it up?

I don't know for certain, but am reasonably sure the wall is ours as our house was built a long time before theirs. I've attached a very bad drawing.

YABU - it's only a small amount of land and makes their plans possible. Suck it up.

YANBU - you don't have to give away your land and lose your trees to make your neighbours' life better.

To not swap land with my neighbour?
OP posts:
BluebellsGreenbells · 24/06/2021 07:04

Look at how much time and worry you’ve already put into a project you get no Beni for from. Imagine their building works taking place with a whole load of builders ignoring the planning permissions, the dust the noise and worry!

Just say no. Save everyone the hassle.

Blackhawkdown2020 · 24/06/2021 07:08

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

Xenia · 24/06/2021 07:53

Just say no.
Also you would need your mortgage lender's permission and they may well not agree anyway. They don't like complex things being done to titles which might affect value on a resale and put off buyers even if it is done lawfully using a solicitor and properly done at the land registry

Mrgrinch · 24/06/2021 08:20

It's also just got me that I've never in my life heard of 'swappinf land'. Land is expensive, if they want a certain piece of it then they need to pay for it. You've already said that the piece they want to give you in exchange is of no use to you. They're taking you for a fool, nobody does this.

Mrgrinch · 24/06/2021 08:20

Just hit me**

Powerof4 · 24/06/2021 08:29

The neighbourly thing to do is to say no clearly and politely upfront before they spend time and money on the scheme.

Pottedpalm · 24/06/2021 08:54

@SD1978

I going completely agains the grain here but I don't see an issue in theory with saying yes. You've asked for trees to be replaced and said they are not 'great' trees there so far. It doesn't affect your garden as long as the plant/ tree parts are met, and the wall is t a historical wall per say and will be professionally rebuilt. The questions regarding the conservation area is more than reasonable and may put a stop to the whole plan. They will give you a piece of land the same size, and you already have more land so this won't hugely impact your garden. I would say yes in these circumstances- but I seem to alone in this!
I agree; if all the terms were met it could turn to be advantageous. I understand things can go wrong, but Mumsnet is quick to assign CF status to any neighbour making a request,
ScrollingLeaves · 24/06/2021 09:10

“Potted Palm”“Mumsnet is quick to assign CF status to any neighbour making a request,“

This request is about wrecking an ancient stone wall and boundary which is part of a listed building, together with a number of mature trees, all so the neighbours to build a new garage.

Whether the request is CF or not, the answer should be, “No”

Clymene · 24/06/2021 09:12

"I agree; if all the terms were met it could turn to be advantageous. I understand things can go wrong, but Mumsnet is quick to assign CF status to any neighbour making a request,"

That's a big IF. And what advantages would there be for the OP? I can't see a single one.

godmum56 · 24/06/2021 09:15

@SD1978

I going completely agains the grain here but I don't see an issue in theory with saying yes. You've asked for trees to be replaced and said they are not 'great' trees there so far. It doesn't affect your garden as long as the plant/ tree parts are met, and the wall is t a historical wall per say and will be professionally rebuilt. The questions regarding the conservation area is more than reasonable and may put a stop to the whole plan. They will give you a piece of land the same size, and you already have more land so this won't hugely impact your garden. I would say yes in these circumstances- but I seem to alone in this!
and once again i have a lovely bridge you might be interested in buying?
godmum56 · 24/06/2021 09:16

@Powerof4

The neighbourly thing to do is to say no clearly and politely upfront before they spend time and money on the scheme.
YES!!!!!!
Pottedpalm · 24/06/2021 09:20

@ScrollingLeaves

“Potted Palm”“Mumsnet is quick to assign CF status to any neighbour making a request,“

This request is about wrecking an ancient stone wall and boundary which is part of a listed building, together with a number of mature trees, all so the neighbours to build a new garage.

Whether the request is CF or not, the answer should be, “No”

I’m capable of reading, thanks! The wall can be rebuilt and the OP stated the trees are not in the best condition. If course there are many matters to consider, but I would at least consider them and enter into a discussion with the neighbours.
Pottedpalm · 24/06/2021 09:25

@Clymene

"I agree; if all the terms were met it could turn to be advantageous. I understand things can go wrong, but Mumsnet is quick to assign CF status to any neighbour making a request,"

That's a big IF. And what advantages would there be for the OP? I can't see a single one.

Well the I P could end up with a wall rebuilt and probably more stable, and new trees in better condition and longer lifespan, and a bit of land as a swap. I live in the centre of a village with many old houses and cottages all higgledy piggledy and people frequently buy/swap bits of land to gain access or make an allotment space. Rights of way are changed using due legal process.
ScrollingLeaves · 24/06/2021 09:27

“The wall can be rebuilt“
PottedPalm it can’t be the same wall ever again - stripped of all that has grown there, on a new boundary following a different line, not as thick, possibly a missing all the things that lived there, bereft of the patina of time.

SirVixofVixHall · 24/06/2021 09:30

@Powerof4

The neighbourly thing to do is to say no clearly and politely upfront before they spend time and money on the scheme.
I agree. Trying to seem nice by placing increasing obstacles will make them cross and frustrated and eventually they will be much more annoyed and aggrieved, saying “well why didn’t you say no at the start”? It is cowardly and less kind to do this. Just say no!
Clymene · 24/06/2021 09:31

@ScrollingLeaves

“The wall can be rebuilt“ PottedPalm it can’t be the same wall ever again - stripped of all that has grown there, on a new boundary following a different line, not as thick, possibly a missing all the things that lived there, bereft of the patina of time.
It's also listed and there is bugger all benefit to 'new' trees.
SirVixofVixHall · 24/06/2021 09:31

@ScrollingLeaves

“The wall can be rebuilt“ PottedPalm it can’t be the same wall ever again - stripped of all that has grown there, on a new boundary following a different line, not as thick, possibly a missing all the things that lived there, bereft of the patina of time.
Agree with this too. A listed wall should not be messed with, it is listed for a reason !
5zeds · 24/06/2021 09:47

I agree that the neighbourly thing to do is save them the expense and say no.

SirVixofVixHall · 24/06/2021 10:04

@FeedMeSantiago

You'd be better off - in terms of neighbourly relations - saying a firm no now, rather than letting it drag on further and then saying no, especially if they agree to pay legal costs whilst you consider it. Even more so than allowing it to go ahead and then falling out over some aspect, especially if it causes issues selling your home in the future due to a neighbour dispute or gets you into trouble with planning/conservation etc.

I can't understand your husband's thinking on this at all. You don't need a reason to say no other than because you don't want to.

Your email, as drafted, looks like a yes to me. These people are CF and it will look like a gigantic neon yes that can be seen from space to them.

Agree !
godmum56 · 24/06/2021 10:18

OP......have you killed your DH yet??? :)

Canigooutyet · 24/06/2021 10:23

I suggested at the beginning that they send the plans back with the message to say polite fuck off we told you we don't want to do it. With the further updates I would now add your plans include listed property and trees are protected. Doesn't matter how many plans we will say no to anything that wants our property as some badly thought out "swap" that is of no benefit to anyone.

But I don't live with a wet blanket.

TheHoundsofLove · 24/06/2021 10:56

@Powerof4

The neighbourly thing to do is to say no clearly and politely upfront before they spend time and money on the scheme.
I also agree. Plus, you're opening yourselves up to all sorts of potential hassle and stress that won't be good for neighbourly relations anyway.
FijiCavanaugh · 24/06/2021 11:36

I think the email is reasonable. OP won't actually lose anything if all those conditions are adhered to.

LookItsMeAgain · 24/06/2021 11:44

I am only coming back to this now but one of your posts @TreeTrials was this:
We'd obviously need solicitors to sort the boundary/title plan, which we wouldn't pay for

You must employ your own solicitors and pay them yourselves. Why wouldn't you pay for the advice and expertise of a solicitor sorting out a land border issue for you???

(going back to read the rest of the thread after this post by the OP).

Mummyoflittledragon · 24/06/2021 11:57

@ThalictrumDelavayi

They will see your email as a green light. You are basically Chamberlain and your email is that worthless bit of paper he waved. Who the hell has plans drawn up of an extension which is partially on their neighbours land, esp when said neighbour has already tried to put them off? CF, that's who! CF can't be appeased, they must be told NO in very clear terms.

If you don't want to look like the bad guys, just blame it on the listed building status.

Dear Neighbours,

Had a look at your plans, thanks for sending them over. I must point out again though that this just won't be possible. Our house, outbuildings and the wall are all listed and so it won't actually be possible to carry out any exchange of land to facilitate changing the width/angle of your proposed new room. Sorry, it's just a complete no go. We wish you luck with rejigging your design.

Yours till whiskers grow on plums, all the Georgie Best etc etc

This is a perfect reply. Your dp is being a pushover. There are so many caveats and issues they just need to leave the boundary alone.