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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not swap land with my neighbour?

531 replies

TreeTrials · 23/06/2021 15:44

Our neighbours are wanting to renovate their garage to incorporate it into their house. It sits alongside our garden boundary wall which is at an angle. Than angle makes it hard for them to do the changes they want because the room would be very narrow at the bottom.

They have previously talked to us about swapping land so they have a more regular shaped room. We expressed reluctance as we don't need the land they were offering and we have some mature bushes/trees growing out of the wall (it's a wide very old stone one). These trees and bushes provide privacy screening so that we don't see their house. If they are cut down, or die due to disturbed roots, we'll be staring at the side of their house rather than greenery. That was the end of the conversation.

They have now sent through technical drawings for their proposal and the proposed wall for the renovated garage appears be to on our land. It feels a bit cheeky given how we'd left things.

Should we let them proceed? The land is the corner of our garden and isn't used for anything useful - it's very dark and full of garden junk. I feel for them that the shape of the land makes their plans pretty hard to achieve with the boundary plan as it is.

My main concern is loss of privacy from the loss of the trees. But then I'm wondering what the situation would be if they change their plans to follow the boundary - they may still end up killing the trees as I imagine the roots will be disturbed whatever work they do. If this is going to be the case (not that I want them to kill our trees!) should we just suck it up?

I don't know for certain, but am reasonably sure the wall is ours as our house was built a long time before theirs. I've attached a very bad drawing.

YABU - it's only a small amount of land and makes their plans possible. Suck it up.

YANBU - you don't have to give away your land and lose your trees to make your neighbours' life better.

To not swap land with my neighbour?
OP posts:
HeckyPeck · 23/06/2021 20:58

*Hi people who live next door,

I was very surprised to receive these documents as last time we discussed this I did not support the plans to swap land.

As you are aware we are in a conservation area, which includes the trees, we are concerned building work will not only remove the trees along the boundary but also the mature cherry. I addition to this our house is listed, which includes the wall.

If we were to consider your proposal then you need need to:
Source replacement mature trees (before any work commences)
Obtain all the relevant planning and altering a listed building permissions and conservation offer approval
Pay all legal costs involved, including out solicitors fees, and register the new boundary.

I think we need to talk this over as it is a very complicated situation.

This is a much better email OP. Have you looked to see what their costs might be? You could always add in that you can see that the costs they would have to meet would easily run to several thousand pounds.

I just googled mature 20ft trees for example and they don't come cheap OP! Plus there is a real risk that they won't establish.

AntiWorkBrigade · 23/06/2021 20:59

I also think it’s crazy to agree to this subject to various conditions that are actually very important to you. What precisely are you going to do if they don’t comply? Legal action is stressful, time-consuming and will utterly destroy any relationship you have with the neighbour. Are you going to bother if they plant trees - but not ones anything like what you had in mind? Almost certainly you’ll just live with it. And regret giving these people the go ahead.

A contract is a good idea as a just-in-case where you don’t expect to have to rely on it. Maybe with a neighbour you know well and trust, and where there arent so many conditions. Given what’s been described here, I don’t think it would be worth the paper it would be written on.

Cailleach1 · 23/06/2021 20:59

If I was your Council's Conservation Officer, I'd say no!

Conservation Officer says no! If you want to entertain it, phone the Council. Ask if you can carve up bits of you land to sell off separately. They might end it there and then. Put you out of your misery, and hubby can say 'if I could I would, but I can't. Our property is of special interest and needs to be protected and maintained intact.'

Neighbours sound horrendous, and disrespectful of your boundaries (in all the senses). To draw up plans like that, expectantly and with a feeling of entitlement.

You need to keep that nice, big stout wall between you and them.

FinallyHere · 23/06/2021 20:59

If they wanted to buy the land off you that is one thing, land you don't use might be worth a few thousand to them

This ^

OMGisthisforreal · 23/06/2021 21:08

I would urge real caution here. Apart from all of the factors you have mentioned in your email to your neighbour you should consider your position if you hand over or swap your land and they pay those costs, etc., yet you could still end up without a satisfactory conclusion from your side. Some of the things you are bargaining could only be fulfilled after the swap has been done, so if they don’t fulfill all of that agreement you could end up in a legal wrangle at your own cost.
It seems too high a price to risk paying in my opinion based on nightmare stories I have heard.

Xenia · 23/06/2021 21:10

I would not say anything like as much as suggested above.
I would just say
"Thanks for sending over plans. As we said before we are not interested in this."

Milesbennettdyson · 23/06/2021 21:14

I’d do it for £10k (I’d settle for £5k but got to start negotiating somewhere) they pay for professional land registry compliant plans and the solicitors costs for updating the title plans or transfers of part to merge with your title.

Octothorpe · 23/06/2021 21:16

My head was in my hands when I read your email to them - sorry, OP.

Apart from anything else (the age of your house, the listing including the boundary, the likely historical interest of the site - even if you think the wall is 'insignificant' it might actually get archaeologists and historians quite excited) why on earth would you voluntarily get yourselves dragged into what sounds like a massive amount of hassle and trouble? It just sounds as though all of this is getting landed on your plate and it's absolutely not your problem!

I don't want to be rude about your DH but he sounds far, far too keen to please your neighbours and I can't for the life of me see why.

godmum56 · 23/06/2021 21:21

@Octothorpe

My head was in my hands when I read your email to them - sorry, OP.

Apart from anything else (the age of your house, the listing including the boundary, the likely historical interest of the site - even if you think the wall is 'insignificant' it might actually get archaeologists and historians quite excited) why on earth would you voluntarily get yourselves dragged into what sounds like a massive amount of hassle and trouble? It just sounds as though all of this is getting landed on your plate and it's absolutely not your problem!

I don't want to be rude about your DH but he sounds far, far too keen to please your neighbours and I can't for the life of me see why.

me either
godmum56 · 23/06/2021 21:21

@Milesbennettdyson

I’d do it for £10k (I’d settle for £5k but got to start negotiating somewhere) they pay for professional land registry compliant plans and the solicitors costs for updating the title plans or transfers of part to merge with your title.
I have got a bridge you might like to buy?
tallduckandhandsome · 23/06/2021 21:22

You and DH sound lovely but that email is a lawyer’s nightmare, you would be giving permission for so much.

From our perspective the triangle you're proposing to forgo is not very usable and therefore of no benefit to us.

Don’t say this please!!

Cocolapew · 23/06/2021 21:24

My email would be Hello CF we were surprised to get your plans, when you originally asked we said no, we haven't changed our minds.

LindaEllen · 23/06/2021 21:28

No.
It will cause major issues if either one of you decide to sell in the future. It's honestly not worth the stress when you can put a stop to it now.

gah2teenagers · 23/06/2021 21:32

There are companies that supply mature trees. Sourced from all over the world. Check out Majestic Trees for example. They supply trees for councils and top end building projects etc. They are very very expensive. Maybe include a link in your email.

TheoMeo · 23/06/2021 21:32

I was going to suggest demanding payment say 2,000 quid for you to reinstate trees and a wall for privacy - actually might require more than that. If you ask them to reinstate trees etc they might make a rubbish attempt at it so better you are paid to do it yourself.
But if its listed you need to inform them soon.

Bumzoo · 23/06/2021 21:34

Nooooo

They'll start it then say they can't source the trees etc, you'll all fall out and you'll end up hating going in your garden.

hamptonedge · 23/06/2021 21:38

@TreeTrials

I think we feel bad because our house and garden is substantially bigger than theirs. DH is saying we'd be twats not to at least consider their proposal. He's saying we could specify that they replace the mature trees.
Why feel bad about it?? You bought your house and they bought theirs, its not your problem to solve. You don't buy a house and then expect your neighbours to 'do a deal' with a bit of land to make it work for you?? Don't even consider it...Angry
blettedmedlar · 23/06/2021 21:42

This is a legal minefield and you would be insane to even consider it. No one swaps land! Seriously do not go there. And your DH really needs to grow a spine - there's such a thing as being too nice for your own good (aka being a right mug!)

ScrollingLeaves · 23/06/2021 21:55

That email makes it seem as though you agree in principle already.

Talking to their architect won’t give you the truth. They’ll tell you what you want to hear.
Arboreal consultants hired by the would be developer always lie or fudge the information about trees. Their ordinary builder may do the wall without understanding how to do it the right way.

Unless you object to the plans yourself, an objection from the conservation officer might have less force.

AlGorithim · 23/06/2021 21:58

@TreeTrials

Thanks for all the input. I do appreciate it - even from the people who think we're mad not to say a straight no! I need to discuss with DP and come up with a plan.
Given that I’m 99.9% certain you posted about this previously and literally everyone told you it was a terrible idea, the fact you’re still entertaining it and have allowed it to get this far suggests you will just go ahead despite all advice because you feel guilty about having more land than your neighbour. Honestly, this is an insane way of thinking.

Clearly, there’s nothing anyone on here can do to dissuade you or convince you to stand up to your DH and stop your neighbour creating a huge headache for you.

You would be mad to go ahead with this.

Unprecedentedusername · 23/06/2021 21:58

My neighbours tried this when they moved in. repeated requests to buy a chunk of our garden as theirs was so small. Erm well you bought the house and saw the garden at the time. After repeated requests we said “no not for sale” and to clarify things planted a big fuck off hedge. Draw a firm line in the sand.

AlGorithim · 23/06/2021 22:01

There is no plan to come up with. You just say ‘no, we’re not doing that’.

Penchantforfloralpatterns · 23/06/2021 22:03

So you want to say no but instead you are going to email what sounds like yes because your husband doesn’t want to seem like he is being unreasonable, hoping that after a lot of trouble and money someone else will say no?
It’s utterly ridiculous, just say no.

Standrewsschool · 23/06/2021 22:06

majestic trees

Mature tree supplier (driven past this nursery several times)

Gives you an idea of prices. Several trees are £1000+.

FeedMeSantiago · 23/06/2021 22:07

You'd be better off - in terms of neighbourly relations - saying a firm no now, rather than letting it drag on further and then saying no, especially if they agree to pay legal costs whilst you consider it. Even more so than allowing it to go ahead and then falling out over some aspect, especially if it causes issues selling your home in the future due to a neighbour dispute or gets you into trouble with planning/conservation etc.

I can't understand your husband's thinking on this at all. You don't need a reason to say no other than because you don't want to.

Your email, as drafted, looks like a yes to me. These people are CF and it will look like a gigantic neon yes that can be seen from space to them.