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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not swap land with my neighbour?

531 replies

TreeTrials · 23/06/2021 15:44

Our neighbours are wanting to renovate their garage to incorporate it into their house. It sits alongside our garden boundary wall which is at an angle. Than angle makes it hard for them to do the changes they want because the room would be very narrow at the bottom.

They have previously talked to us about swapping land so they have a more regular shaped room. We expressed reluctance as we don't need the land they were offering and we have some mature bushes/trees growing out of the wall (it's a wide very old stone one). These trees and bushes provide privacy screening so that we don't see their house. If they are cut down, or die due to disturbed roots, we'll be staring at the side of their house rather than greenery. That was the end of the conversation.

They have now sent through technical drawings for their proposal and the proposed wall for the renovated garage appears be to on our land. It feels a bit cheeky given how we'd left things.

Should we let them proceed? The land is the corner of our garden and isn't used for anything useful - it's very dark and full of garden junk. I feel for them that the shape of the land makes their plans pretty hard to achieve with the boundary plan as it is.

My main concern is loss of privacy from the loss of the trees. But then I'm wondering what the situation would be if they change their plans to follow the boundary - they may still end up killing the trees as I imagine the roots will be disturbed whatever work they do. If this is going to be the case (not that I want them to kill our trees!) should we just suck it up?

I don't know for certain, but am reasonably sure the wall is ours as our house was built a long time before theirs. I've attached a very bad drawing.

YABU - it's only a small amount of land and makes their plans possible. Suck it up.

YANBU - you don't have to give away your land and lose your trees to make your neighbours' life better.

To not swap land with my neighbour?
OP posts:
ChargingBuck · 23/06/2021 19:46

Yeah, I'm gonna turn off notifications for this thread as OP is clearly gonna cave, & at the very least take on montbs of dispurtion & a load of hair-raising legal protection stiff ... & at worst get soundly ripped off & left in Unsellable Limbo Land should she want to sell up later.

It was good to see your plans, thanks for sharing them in advance

No it wasn't. Even you found it puzzling, as you felt you'd already "expressed reluctance". I find it downright odd, & worryingly pushy.

They are also probably as naive as OP & DH if they think they can just "swap land" without considering the £10k - £50k cost of actually securing that land legally (you might be amazed how much it costs to relocate/replace mature trees). Too aive &/or CF to be allowed to create merry hell for OP when they fuck up on the legals.

They didn't even put the trees on the plan FFS.

You are walking into a minefiueld of ongoing misery OP.

StoneofDestiny · 23/06/2021 19:46

Bizarre that anybody would submit a plan to build on land that wasn't theirs.

I'd steer well clear of agreeing to anything about 'swapping', but if I wanted to sell off some land I'd get a serious valuation done and wait a long time to ensure I planted my own trees so I had the screening I wanted (but remember these will be new roots, so likely to interfere with foundations more than a more established root system.

Overall though - the fact that plans are going in from my neighbours based on MY land would make me very wary about dealing with these neighbours at all.

ChargingBuck · 23/06/2021 19:47

Sorry about the typos, hit wrong button too soon.
Hope it's clear, & hope OP doesn't allow this CFery to continue.

Mrgrinch · 23/06/2021 19:48

A lot more harm will come of your neighbourly friendship when they promise to comply with all of your requests and then don't.

Then you'll be out by a corner of your garden and the legal fees it will cost you to try and get them to keep their promises. And then probably the cost to put it right yourself when they still don't do it.

Thiscantreallybehappening · 23/06/2021 19:48

I'm anticipating the conversation would go 'we haven't managed to find trees the same size' or 'we haven't managed to get listed building consent' in which case they can't do it.
No idea how they would do the listed building consent without us anyway!

They will just tell you they will source the trees, if they can't get them easily they will put something else there and tell you they tried. What can you do about it once the works have been done.

The building listed consent they are going to assume you will go along with as long as they pay.

I think they are going to plough ahead with this and you and your DH will get dragged along, they will get permission and you could well end up regretting not being stronger. Also this is going to cause you a lot of time to make sure everything is done properly.

Throckmorton · 23/06/2021 19:51

Trying to placare people like your neighbours with reasonableness never works - it just encourages them to push first more and more.

Throckmorton · 23/06/2021 19:52

"for more and more"

Backhills · 23/06/2021 19:52

I think your DH's plan to be co operative whilst putting up obstacles will backfire anyway. Neighbourly relations are far more likely to be damaged through getting involved in this scheme than by just saying no at the outset.

If it's no after they've tried to jump through your hoops they're going to hate you.

SirVixofVixHall · 23/06/2021 19:52

@Ruddyknackered

The chances of getting a Conservation Officer to agree that a listed, old wall be knocked down is... not high.
Agree. Also i am baffled by your DH. I mean just WHY ? I like to help neighbours, but this is a really stupid precedent to set with people who are clearly thinking only of themselves. They are not your family, they are not lifelong friends. Being a good neighbour means being considerate about noise, taking in parcels, helpful when there is a crisis etc. Not this. Your DH needs to learn to have boundaries and not be afraid to say no to people. Saying no doesn’t mean being rude or unkind, you have every right not to do this.
Clymene · 23/06/2021 19:55

Dear neighbours.

Thank you for sharing your plans. While we are keen to maintain good neighbourly relations, there are a number of legal issues that need to resolved with your proposal. Should you wish to proceed, we direct you to our solicitor, GrabIt and Run, whose details are below.

As your planned development has no benefits for us, we would of course require a commitment from you in writing that you are responsible for all legal and ancillary expenses required on our behalf before discussing your proposals more formally.

Yours,

TreeTrials.

Suzi888 · 23/06/2021 20:05

Unless a tree has a TPO on it, it can just be cut down- doesn’t matter how old it is.
By asking them to source and replace your 20ft trees, I imagine that’s pretty much impossible Hmm anyway.

Why don’t you either just say no, or sell them the land! Instead you are basically saying yes, go ahead but please ensure you source some fairy dust, build a new wall in gold and have the work done by elves….. thanks.

Cailleach1 · 23/06/2021 20:07

I wonder if you can parcel the bit of land off and sell it them. I used to live in a Conservation area and you couldn't divide your house into apartments. The house had to remain in a single unit.

Your property being listed, and so of special interest, I wonder if you can snip a bit off as you wish and alter the layout like that.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 23/06/2021 20:07

Don't.

People's idea of replacing mature trees and shrubs are a bit like replacing a hippo with a rabbit.

You can ask them to replace a big mature tree but I bet what you'll get is a puny little sapling.

Also, this has potential to go wrong in so many areas, keep it simple, say no and let them fuck off.

TreeTrials · 23/06/2021 20:07

Thanks for all the input. I do appreciate it - even from the people who think we're mad not to say a straight no! I need to discuss with DP and come up with a plan.

OP posts:
LondonLife3 · 23/06/2021 20:07

If you have a mortgage any reduction to outlined land on the title would need to be reviewed. It’s quite a hassle!

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 23/06/2021 20:08

Oh and what's wrong with your DH?

What is he, man or mouse?

HeronLanyon · 23/06/2021 20:09

Dear John and Sheila,
We totally understand why you’d want to do this (we would too if we were you) but we discussed it and we don’t want to do this.

We love that wall and the trees and the privacy they give etc.

Additionally you might not realise but our property is listed including all of the boundary walls which would include that bit you wanted to buy and remove. Even if we agreed, which we don’t, The costs of you getting planning consent, conveyancing, registering the amended boundaries, putting all works right, replacing those trees, repairing the newly exposed part of our wall and so on don’t bear thinking about surely. I don’t see that you would be given consent to demolish a listed wall for a replacement garage anyway?
But coming back to the main reason, we don’t want to lose that bit of our boundary wall, trees and garden. Really sorry it’s not a runner. Wish you’d asked us something more possible for us to help you out.

BonnieDundee · 23/06/2021 20:11

OP I want to shake your DH. Your CF neighbours don't give a fuck about you. They've probably only been nice to you to soften you up for this piece of complete CF-ery.

If you.must.say something,.tell them no you don't want to go ahead.with this but if you ever put your house on the market you will let them know first and not follow through because there will be CF-ery.with that too

Eddielzzard · 23/06/2021 20:13

This has got disaster written all over it.

Oh and someone else applied for planning on my land and didn't ask me. Just submitted the application. I found out by the by and had to make a huge stink. Watch out! People lie.

PartTimeLegend · 23/06/2021 20:15

@TreeTrials

Re the wall - it's a short, ramshackled thing not of any great merit (except the stones are old). It's not visible from the road. It's barely visible from our garden (bushes etc in the way) and it's not visible from the neighbours as their run down garage sits alongside it. Have it moved and rebuilt won't affect the value of our property at all.
I drive past a short ramshackle bit of wall on the way to work every day. It is nothing to write home about. In fact it looks totally crap.

Except - it is the last remaining tiny piece of a long-gone castle's boundary wall, and is over a thousand years old.

Blindstupid · 23/06/2021 20:15

I literally can not believe what I’m reading. OP what is wrong with you?? “Sorry neighbour, no, your extension must stay on your land, not mine.” END OF.

I genuinely can’t understand the way you’re acting at all when you say you don’t want it. I think your dh is the problem, not your neighbours.

yoyo1234 · 23/06/2021 20:17

So your saying the wall is listed. Then removing it is very unlikely not to be allowed so your neighbours plan is potentially going to lead to significant issues/fines if the wall is knocked down. I believe planning do not always check who owns all the land.

Ohhyeahright · 23/06/2021 20:18

This sounds like an absolute nightmare. No way will they follow through on promises once it’s all done Confused

TreeTrials · 23/06/2021 20:19

@LondonLife3 thanks, that's really useful.

OP posts:
PurBal · 23/06/2021 20:19

@TreeTrials

Actually just thought of another issue. Our house is listed (it's really very old) and that applies to the boundary wall as well as the house itself.
So it seems like no is the only answer.