To not swap land with my neighbour?

[TreeTrials]

Our neighbours are wanting to renovate their garage to incorporate it into their house. It sits alongside our garden boundary wall which is at an angle. Than angle makes it hard for them to do the changes they want because the room would be very narrow at the bottom.

They have previously talked to us about swapping land so they have a more regular shaped room. We expressed reluctance as we don't need the land they were offering and we have some mature bushes/trees growing out of the wall (it's a wide very old stone one). These trees and bushes provide privacy screening so that we don't see their house. If they are cut down, or die due to disturbed roots, we'll be staring at the side of their house rather than greenery. That was the end of the conversation.

They have now sent through technical drawings for their proposal and the proposed wall for the renovated garage appears be to on our land. It feels a bit cheeky given how we'd left things.

Should we let them proceed? The land is the corner of our garden and isn't used for anything useful - it's very dark and full of garden junk. I feel for them that the shape of the land makes their plans pretty hard to achieve with the boundary plan as it is.

My main concern is loss of privacy from the loss of the trees. But then I'm wondering what the situation would be if they change their plans to follow the boundary - they may still end up killing the trees as I imagine the roots will be disturbed whatever work they do. If this is going to be the case (not that I want them to kill our trees!) should we just suck it up?

I don't know for certain, but am reasonably sure the wall is ours as our house was built a long time before theirs. I've attached a very bad drawing.

YABU - it's only a small amount of land and makes their plans possible. Suck it up.

YANBU - you don't have to give away your land and lose your trees to make your neighbours' life better.

I think you have covered a lot of points in the email, but surely the next step would be you getting legal advice?

Also, what about the value of your property being affected?

Is the land swap, the same area or do they gain more of your land?

I don’t think the OP Dh is keen on this. But I do think he is trying to find a peaceful way out to say no. I can see his point. Why make a neighbour dispute if you can avoid it. Especially if you want to sell in the future.

Really?! You're considering this?! I'd be devastated to lose 2 mature trees for the sake of a neighbour wanting more space. I would decline their enquiry.

@HeronLanyon I think we'd agree if they did everything we asked and got all the necessary permissions. Thing is, I don't think they will necessarily get the consents and I don't think they will be able to source mature trees.

That email is way too conciliatory. Sounds like you are saying yes

Honestly OP I think you'd be mad, so much hassle for exactly zero benefit to you. I'd just email "we've discussed it and we're happy with our garden as it is, best of luck with the extension."

@TreeTrials
That seems a reasonable response
I suspect that the conservation officer won't be happy about a listed wall being taken down and will object but it may depend on how strict the listing is.
As others say you can get planning permission on someone else's land - I've done it for clients however that doesn't give them the right to build without your permission.
The main issue apart from listed consent is the getting the land registry sorted as it will affect you in the future.

I think a straight no would be a better letter OP. You seem to be very nervous of the neighbours which is a shame. Plenty of people on here have pointed out a no idea wayyy easier than whatever it is you're trying to achieve. Give an inch and people will usually take a mile.

The proposed changes won't affect the value of our property (subject to trees being replaced). The amount of land itself is small, particularly in relation to the rest of our garden. It's the privacy/risk to trees that's my main concern.

To be honest, the trees are not great specimens but they do the job in providing cover.

They're going to see that letter as a starting point for the negotiations. If they're planning to build up to where the wall is, how will they have space to replace the greenery?

As PP said, I think you need them to buy the land and cover all your costs, but really, just say no for any number of perfectly reasonable reasons.

So you're relying on someone else to say no on your behalf somewhere along the line? God OP I mean this in a nice way, but grow a backbone and say no. You are going to be greatly inconveniencing yourself and for what? To please someone who doesn't care about you.

You'll lose your trees.
You'll lose your privacy.
You'll lose your land.
Things will be promised in order to gain permission and then not followed through with.

I also think your opening sentence, "thanks for sharing etc," in a way is giving them the green light on this project.

I understand you don't want a fall out over this but they didn't even tell you that they were getting technical drawings done and they went ahead even after you voiced your reluctance.

Also, talking to their builder and architect isn't giving you independent advice. They are working for them so will clearly present eveything positively. Surely, you need someone working for you?

NO NO NO.

Get legal advice before you even CONSIDER sending an email.

You are completely nuts for even considering it tbh.

If you do want to go ahead, you need a solicitor to draft a letter like the one you propose surely? At this stage you could have a verbal discussion about what the issues may be, but don't be suggesting what you might agree to in writing. All you need in writing is their confirmation that they'll be covering all your costs.

I'm anticipating the conversation would go 'we haven't managed to find trees the same size' or 'we haven't managed to get listed building consent' in which case they can't do it.
No idea how they would do the listed building consent without us anyway!

Why would you agree to this when it would likely destroy your peaceful enjoyment of your garden and offer no benefit whatsoever in return? I'm beginning to think this is a wind-up.

@Backhills

They're going to see that letter as a starting point for the negotiations. If they're planning to build up to where the wall is, how will they have space to replace the greenery?

As PP said, I think you need them to buy the land and cover all your costs, but really, just say no for any number of perfectly reasonable reasons.

^This.

They will take that letter as a yes and definitely not a no.

You need to keep it short. The more you say the more they will take it as room to move.

Honestly you are far too accomodating and this will turn into a nightmare DESPITE you trying to be friendly.

If this was just my call I'd say 'sorry that doesn't work for me' but DH is pretty clear that he wants to pass the ball back to them to show that it's not going to work from a financial or hassle perspective. On that basis I'm trying to draft something which achieves that.

Things will be promised in order to gain permission and then not followed through with.

Yes, this will happen too

You could say you would consider it if the replacement wall is like for like and they replace lost trees with mature trees?

Anyone else feel like starting a sit in to protect this listed ancient wall and mature trees fro what feels like impending disasterous vandalism? Not for op who it seems (sorry if I’ve got this wrong) is now saying contradictory things but just because it’s ancient and listed. I could weep. Op protect what you have and what your first post said you valued (let alone the value put on it by national listing!)

OP, I understand what your DH is trying to achieve but I would change your opening sentence. If I were your neighbours receiving that email, I would think: "cool, they are going to agree we just need to convince them about the trees and promise to do the legal bits"

You could get the quote for the wall and trees and they have to put the cash forward in advance

I wouldn't go near this.

In theory you can make an agreement that they'll do xyz to comply with your wishes about privacy, trees etc. However making them comply in practice is another thing - if they don't do what you ask then what? Yes you can take them to court/send lawyers letters but that isn't going to make for good neighbourly relations and it's a hassle you don't need.

If you absolutely wanted to go ahead I'd sell them the land, with the price including the cost of the remedial works you'd like (plus something for your time and hassle), and you then organise the boundary wall/tree planting etc. That way you know it will happen, to your satisfaction.

@TreeTrials

If this was just my call I'd say 'sorry that doesn't work for me' but DH is pretty clear that he wants to pass the ball back to them to show that it's not going to work from a financial or hassle perspective. On that basis I'm trying to draft something which achieves that.

Well get legal advice before you do then.