Working in nurseries.

[Ilovegreentomatoes]

I work in a nursery. We are permanently understaffed and can never seem to encourage applicants.I notice this is a common theme among nurseries struggling to recruit staff. So out of interest just wanted to know what would put people of working in a nursery? Yes pay is normally minimum wage could it be that? Or working with children in general? Just interested to hear opinions.

@Phineyj with respect and from experience yes you could try three strikes and you're out, but sadly many parents are unhinged and resentful, they then make up something to complain to Ofsted about, usually safeguarding related which generates an unannounced inspection which causes huge stress, they then refuse to pay their bill which could run into the thousands and you then have Courts etc involved .... often easier to just pander to these trouble makers sadly.

a friend recently applied and was offered the job (in her 40s, no formal childcare experience but a mum to a 14yo)
She was told it would be a 40 hour week, minimum wage. Have to take an hour for lunch which is unpaid. Spread the hours over 4 days (so 11 hour days) or 5.
She was also told she would have to do the nvq which she was happy to do, but all in her own time - when she worked in care and was doing nvq she was allowed to get on with some of it at work if it was quiet. She would have to pay for DBS and something else (nvq I think?) which was altogether going to be about £150 before she started.
Unsurprisingly she turned it down

Oh - and due to the location of the nursery she wouldn’t really be able to go out anywhere for her hour lunch break

The pay!
The hours. 8am-6pm Monday to Friday with a half hour unpaid break each day, its mentally and physically exhausting.

Looking after SEN children with no training or additional support.
Too much time spent on the tablet instead of with the children.

I'm leaving my setting soon, been in childcare 15 years.

Its the pay...its crap. But worse there is a culture of needing to put in unpaid hours because that's the way it is. You are still Ofsted inspected and expected to be highly skilled...with minimal training and crap pay.

Also we are undervalued and unappreciated...I had a friend recently go to pains, in front of me, to explain to her school age child that I was not a real teacher like his was. (Former friend).

If you do it, you do it for love.

Oh...I manage a setting and our local organisation said that perhaps the position would be better filled by a person with a degree!

As if someone would go to University and into debt to work for this wage!!!

You could if you were sufficiently determined. But as you say, you'd have to be prepared for the consequences.

Pay.
Unfriendly working hours ( have young kids)
Don't like the way most nurseries work.

As if someone would go to University and into debt to work for this wage!!!

Well I suppose the upside would be you'd never start paying the debt on a nursery wage...

In all honesty, what would put me off working in a nursery now is the idea of working with much younger people.

I work in social care and we have a similar problem, except that we have been told we cannot use agency. Its been quite a nightmare the last few months. We have some new staff starting but its taking ages.

there is only one way to improve conditions for staff and that is for parents to pay more

No, there is only way way to improve conditions and that is for the government to adequately subsidise childcare. Like they do in most other European countries. Parents can't pay more. Too many women are forced out of work by the high costs of childcare as it is.

there is only one way to improve conditions for staff and that is for parents to pay more

I agree with second - our childcare costs are the highest/one of the highest in Europe. I wouldn't be surprised if they were among the highest in the world. And for that the overall quality of provision is poor.

@secondspringing

there is only one way to improve conditions for staff and that is for parents to pay more

No, there is only way way to improve conditions and that is for the government to adequately subsidise childcare. Like they do in most other European countries. Parents can't pay more. Too many women are forced out of work by the high costs of childcare as it is.

I agree. Parents pay enough as it is, forcing many parents (mostly mothers) out of the workforce. The government needs to provide funding for the childcare sector. We can not expect to have good quality childcare when the majority of people willing to work for minimum wage are young people with very little qualifications or experience.

@EssentialHummus

there is only one way to improve conditions for staff and that is for parents to pay more

I agree with second - our childcare costs are the highest/one of the highest in Europe. I wouldn't be surprised if they were among the highest in the world. And for that the overall quality of provision is poor.

Ours childcare costs are the second highest in the world.

I am unclear from some of these posts if the nurseries are not paying statutory sick pay or enhanced sick pay. If it's the former, they must be breaking the law...statutory means, well, statutory (although I can see you can get round it if the staff are from an agency).

I should have said that I was very happy with the nursery my DD went to. I did notice the best staff tended to depart after a while for nanny posts (one came back though!). I am a qualified teacher and I just don't see the point of the EYFS at all if it is delivered in such a way that it detracts from the childcare and stresses the staff. All we wanted was for DD to be well looked after by kind responsible people. Education is for school age and UK DC already start that very early by international standards.

It cost us £5 grand after tax per day per year and we used 3 days and then 4. This was five years ago so no doubt it's even more now. We only have one child. I just don't think there's capacity for parents to pay more unless real wages rise across the board (they're still not back to where they were in 2008), or the govt make childcare fully tax deductible.

Sick pay?! Only when they have to with a doctors note after certain amount of days..the odd day however.. nothing

A freedom of information request by early years alliance has shown that the government has knowingly been underfunding the childcare sector. They knew that this would cause the cost for parents to rise, making childcare unaffordable for many.

@Phineyj with respect, 99% of the paperwork is reports/assessments/planning for each child, so hiring someone else to do it wouldn’t work. Thankyou for trying to make things better, though.

Also, poorly paid paid parents just can’t pay more. I know one who makes about £20 a week after nursery plus travel costs. I know because I helped her to work it out.
Another is making an actual loss on nursery fees versus her own job, but doing it to keep the job for when her children are school age.

The children. No thank you.

I've got one DC of my own and I would be furious if they attended this nursery.

I worked in a nursery for 5 years and often felt the same. Parents saw the lovely bright main reception area, but they didn't see:

Staff tidying around children

Broken toys / equipment

Large groups of children pretty much ignored, whilst a member of staff tried to get a photo of a single child for their learning log

The high turnover off staff

Staff sitting doing learning journey on their dinner break

The unpaid staff meeetings

The unpaid time spent setting up for the next day

The shit wage at the end of the month

Staff ill, but unable to take time off because they needed the money

I do understand. I am an overworked teacher myself and a lot of what I do can't be delegated either.

My personal view is the only way the govt gets away with the terrible misogynist crap they pull with the entire education system is because parents only have to suffer it for a short period of time. I mean, this thread is making me feel angry on behalf of nursery workers but my own DC is 5 years out...I'm currently worrying about secondary admissions...

@Rosebel

You mention that over the weekend parents undo their child’s progress re behaviour. Do you have a system where you openly and directly discuss with parents your recommendations for what they can do at home to help their child’s behaviour?

As a parent, if my child was struggling behaviourally at nursery or home I’d be keen to listen to experienced professionals like nursery workers and hear them out about their suggestions. But if you don’t have that conversation and make recommendations, how can parents know what they’re doing to contribute to the problem and find out what to do differently?

I think it's probably the pay but TBH you couldn't pay me enough to look after other people's children all day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. It's just not for me.

@Whinge

I've got one DC of my own and I would be furious if they attended this nursery.

I worked in a nursery for 5 years and often felt the same. Parents saw the lovely bright main reception area, but they didn't see:

Staff tidying around children

Broken toys / equipment

Large groups of children pretty much ignored, whilst a member of staff tried to get a photo of a single child for their learning log

The high turnover off staff

Staff sitting doing learning journey on their dinner break

The unpaid staff meeetings

The unpaid time spent setting up for the next day

The shit wage at the end of the month

Staff ill, but unable to take time off because they needed the money

Sick staff is such a problem. Staff usually turn up to work ill because they can not afford the time off. This often means other staff also get sick. Management also guilt sick staff to come into work because we would be understaffed if they didn’t. I have witnessed many staff asking to go home or to the doctors because they don’t feel well, only to be told that they can not leave because there is nobody to cover them.

I’m 42, with an early years degree and manage a baby room in a private nursery. I earn minimum wage plus 10p an hour as a room manager.

I spend many days off training and attending workshops at nursery unpaid. Late night staff meetings unpaid. Owner has a crew app that pings all hours demanding we answer continuous professional development questions and contribute to planning ideas. A 30 minute lunch break in an 11 hour day, the bare minimum of holiday entitlement and forced to use half of it when nursery closes for 2 weeks at Christmas and bank holidays leaving me just a week and a half to use at my leisure through the year. Unpaid for any sick leave despite 10 years service.

It’s too much. For too little. I ADORE my job, but I feel so so undervalued for the huge amount of pressure and responsibility I have I can’t keep letting my family struggle for other people’s children. I finish at the end of the month.