Working in nurseries.

[Ilovegreentomatoes]

I work in a nursery. We are permanently understaffed and can never seem to encourage applicants.I notice this is a common theme among nurseries struggling to recruit staff. So out of interest just wanted to know what would put people of working in a nursery? Yes pay is normally minimum wage could it be that? Or working with children in general? Just interested to hear opinions.

As a previous poster said, a terrifying, well I would say worrying, number of children with behavioural issues, and minimal or no help in managing them. Often we are just trying to protect the other children from them
Many children upset and frustrated with language delay, and so little help. Cuts everywhere.
Changing nappies crouching on the toilet floor- there is nowhere else.
The logistical struggle of trying to run an activity for your group but one child soils themselves every 1/2 hour and one is hitting others, apparently randomly. The phone rings, the doorbell rings, water is spilt, the children aren’t getting the attention they deserve.
Then parents are annoyed if you don’t know how much snack their child ate.
Then you clean for no money, after hours, then you go home and try to write positive reports on a child’s progress.

I was a nanny in a previous life. Yes my hours were longer than working in a daycare centre but I was earning about £35k a year and had so much autonomy over how I structured my day. When I was between jobs I picked up from temp work in a nursery- they needed a 4 day cover. I called in sick days 3 and 4 as the work was incredibly disheartening, and for what I was being paid (which, as a contractor was higher than the nursery staff) it wasn't worth my time.

Knowing people who worked in that environment and having done those bits of temping was also a huge contributing factor to why my DH and I set ourselves up for me to not return to work after the children were born unless I could work without putting them into daycare.

Knowing people who worked in that environment and having done those bits of temping was also a huge contributing factor to why my DH and I set ourselves up for me to not return to work after the children were born unless I could work without putting them into daycare.

You're not alone, 3 of my previous colleagues have made the same decision after having their children. As they knew that what the parents saw on the surface didn't represent the every day reality.

I'm sure there are amazing nurseries out there, who don't face the many problems highlighted on this thread. However the vast majority are struggling with the daily demands, lack of staff, illness, minimal breaks / holidays, burnout and the huge expectations and responsibilities.

@EYProvider fair point, you can see it isn't my specialist area! It just makes no sense to me how anyone is to make a fair profit out of it.

@MintyJulip what a lovely and rewarding job!

@Hollywhiskey - they don’t make a profit unless you own the building. A company like Bright Horizons makes a profit obviously because they own loads of different buildings, but a nursery that isn’t part of a chain is generally just limping along from one month to the next.

You can make a bit of a profit if you sell the business, but most nurseries have business debts as well, so they have to be deducted from any gains.

It’s very hard. Nurseries are unusual businesses to run because the overheads are so enormous and the expectations from both Ofsted and parents are so unrealistic.

First off, you can’t pay your staff a decent wage if childcare is ‘free’.

Secondly, you can’t look after a roomful of kids while writing essays on each of them that will be scrutinised and pulled apart by both Ofsted and the parents (who by the way, do not think they should pay).

Ofsted don’t have a clue about kids. Every few years they decide they have been doing it all wrong and a new set of rules are made up. Educational standards are at an all time low so none of the rules are working. The whole system needs a complete overhaul by someone with a bit of common sense. Sadly, that precludes everyone who works for Ofsted in my experience.

@stripes416 I can imagine that really does happen. We have apprentice in my work, they usually leave a short while after qualifying. Gives my boss the rage.
I don't understand how you don't really get older people working in nurseries, once their children are all grown up etc

Older people with grown up children - would they really want to retrain to get their level 2 or 3 and then work on minimum wage with a shitload of unpaid work out of hours? No they are more likely to want to work in a shop or as a cleaner.

Long hours, low pay, working with v young children - wiping bums, noses etc. Not for me

Working with children is lovely but it’s underpaid considering the hours and the responsibility. That goes for all teaching related jobs, but especially nursery jobs. Personally I quit a teaching job with older children because I could earn more at Aldi. Nursery jobs pay even less than I earned.

[quote MondeoFan]@stripes416 I can imagine that really does happen. We have apprentice in my work, they usually leave a short while after qualifying. Gives my boss the rage.
I don't understand how you don't really get older people working in nurseries, once their children are all grown up etc [/quote]
because its hard physical work, and you just don't have the same physical stamina in your 50s and 60s that you have in your 20s! Working with babies and toddlers is a lot of up and down off the floor, bending over, picking them up, chasing after them etc.. not much fun when you are menopausal and your joints hurt!

Not to mention many private nurseries are "pack away" meaning all the furniture and equipment and any trace of the children has to be stored at the end of the session. This is common for settings in church halls etc. Very hard work.

There has to be a certain number of qualified staff per room though it can't be all unqualified staff.
Even as a level 2 you can't be left alone with the children so I'm not sure why people are saying it's all young people straight out of school working in nursery.
Nurseries do need to pay more. It's shocking that as a level 3 qualified nursery nurse I can earn more working in the supermarket and have more flexibility in my hours than I can in a nursery.

I am a Nanny, I used to work in a nursery 11 years ago before becoming a nanny. I couldn’t go back now I as I get 15 pounds an hour as a nanny I would get min wage if I worked in a nursery. No comparison really.

because for the same money, its easier to work as a TA with infant school age children, have the same fun, for better hours, and less paperwork.

I've done both jobs, and while i adored nursery age, the people i worked with and the pay were ridiculous for the hours i was expected to put in.

i also think the level of training required is ridiculous for what you get paid.

Hi,

I am just looking for a bit of advice. I had my first day today at a private nursery. I have recently graduated with level 3 however have little practical experience due to Covid. When the other two staff members left as they are more part time I was on my own with all 12 children. This was in the garden and I was stressed having to ask someone to watch my class so I could take someone to the toilet. However this person wouldn’t even watch my class they just stuck with their own class on the other side of the garden.

The children are only 3 and I was shocked that this was happening as it’s well over ratio.

So upset this happened on my first day and unsure what to do now?

Thanks in advance

@SRKN wow that’s bad.
If an accident were to happen there would be trouble.
It’s obviously usual for the setting though, disgraceful as it is, but on your first day! Eek

The nursery I worked in would get around ratios by having qualified office staff on the premises.
We could go all week without setting eyes on them but their argument was that they were on the premises (although in a different building)
If an inspector rocked up they would of course appear to read stories or feed a baby.
Maybe that is how your setting operates.

If you want to work there, I think you could ask the dept manager what they want you to do when a child needs the loo. Do you leave the group, send the child in alone, or what? See what they say.

I’d say run for the hills though. Sorry.

That is disgusting. I'd be straight on to Ofsted. What sort of place leaves one member of staff with 12 children?
They can get away with it if the number of staff across the whole building puts you in ratio but it's bad practice.
I'd ask if there's usually another member of staff in your room (could have been on holiday or sick yesterday) but personally I wouldn't go back today.

The pay. I did it when I was younger and the pay, combined with long, difficult days wasn’t appealing. Plus, we had to give up at least 2 Saturdays a year for training or helping with open days for free - that was in our contracts. Turnover was always high.

The system really isn't working is it.

We're expecting more and more children to be put into nurseries as women (usually) are expected to work more and more.

Yet the quality of provision (due to all the above reasons) isn't great really. When nursery workers don't want to put their kids in nurserys as they know what its like...

Yet on other threads everyone claims their little one "loves nursery." And we all carry on like before.

Its shocking really (see also old person care.)

The system really isn't working is it

No it isn't but it's not a discussion you can have on MN without being accused of "guilting" working mothers who have "no choice" but to work or want to work because their careers - and pensions! - are so important.

Well, let's change things so parents have the right to more flexible working and children have the right to be home for part of the day with their mum/dad.

And when they are in day care/pre school they are looked after by well trained and well paid staff who have the good terms and conditions that the nurseries' clients demand from their employers.

What would put me off is the fact the lovely nursery workers are paid a pittance yet I pay £64 PER DAY for my child to be looked after by them. It is not fair on them at all.. they work really hard and my son absolutely loves all his ladies there.

I would vote for you OutDamnPigeon! All of what you say is spot on

To me it feels its this huge thing thats never discussed in the open for all the reasons you say. Those of us who took time out to avoid the nursery issue when young ... are left with difficulties returning to work. And I do think its a whole generation of children who have had these formative years affected. (Due to one member of staff watching 13 kids/not having time to develop close bonds/all the above reasons why minimum wage/young staff/not enough fundign and support don't lead tot the best outcomes.)

Thanks Giant

Look out for a thread, I'm going to start in AIBU later and please contribute!