To not understand the vaccine drama

[Lei8133]

I am so confused by all this anti-vaxxer hate and mandating the COVID vaccine for certain professions extra. IMO if you have had the vaccine (which I have, well I’m awaiting my 2nd dose) surely people who haven’t had the jab pose no increased threat to us. The only people they cause harm to are fellow anti-vaxxers and other unvaccinated people for whom the risk is always present.

Surely whether we like it or not it is a personal choice whether you receive the vaccine or not and the freedom of choice is something we should all advocate for whether we agree with the decision or not surely?!? I just don’t get it and the divide it is causes amongst friends, family and the greater society is saddening. AIBU?!?! If so can someone explain to me how unvaccinated relatives and friends are potentially harmful to me despite having received the jab?

It's not nonsense though.

You are speaking as one individual who didn't use up resources (great), but as a group, the lack of vaccination does indeed use up resources.

Even now, you are statistically helping to perpetuate the virus. I'm not condemning you for your choice, but I do question your logic that you aren't contributing to resources being used.

If you drive without due care and attention, you may well not end up in hospital, that doesn't mean hospital resources aren't used because of your actions. It only means those resources weren't used on you. They may well be used on those left in your wake.

@Grenlei

People need to stop parroting the trope that if you don't have the vaccine you'll end up using hospital resources.

I've had Covid. I didn't need hospital or even a GP. I've not seen any evidence that says having had it once and suffered no more than mild flu like symptoms I'm bound to be hospitalised next time.

Of all the many people I know who have had Covid, only 2 of them needed medical treatment (and only one of them was admitted to hospital).

Conversely, I know 3 people who have been hospitalised following the vaccine, and one who died.

I see you’re insinuating in your last paragraph that they died or were hospitalised because of the vaccine .. if that’s the case then your odds of winning the lottery must be huge.

But again, I don't work outside the home. I only leave the house to shop, at which I wear a mask and socially distance. The chances of me - IF I was carrying Covid which I probably won't be - spreading it to others is at most minimal. Or is there some other way I'm going to be transmitting it?

The only people they cause harm to are fellow anti-vaxxers and other unvaccinated people for whom the risk is always present.

Not all who haven't had the vaccine are fellow antivaxxers. Some are still waiting to be called up and some genuinely can't have it for whatever medical reasons they don't need to justify to the rest of the world. There's also thousands of school aged children of sound mind who want to be vaccinated and aren't yet old enough.
But FWIW once everyone vulnerable including the thousands of school aged cev children who were on shielding lists. I'm completely fine with the antivaxxer community chosing not to have it...

Nobody is bullying you. You started accusing me of all sorts that I didn’t say. I defended myself. End of.

You called people not having the vaccine anti vaxxers and selfish. People who are choosing to be have the vaccine are routinely called selfish, thick, ignorant, and don't deserve treatment if they get ill. Do you not call that bullying?

Oh, and BTW just because you say "end of" that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to reply HTH

@Lei8133 you cant close a thread unless you report it to MNHQ and ask for it.to.be closed but you need a good reason, not just that you want to close it.

As pp said, I know loads of people who have had covid, none of whom have needed hospital treatment. I know of one who died who didnt get admitted to hospital

Someone said it earlier, I think it was @OchonAgusOchonOh... we’re all making our choices for selfish reasons even if it’s just for the feel good you get knowing you’re doing something to help others that is still in some degree self-serving. I think it’s too much too say that ONLY anti-covid vaccine takers act out of self interest.

Also, IMO it’s stupid to blame people who don’t want the vaccine for the destruction of the economy, mental health, education etc, because those choices were made by the government... it is the government who have said that “we cannot open until ‘x’ happens...” “we must do this...” “we must do that...” etc. Vaccinating the entire population is impossible as not everyone can take the vaccine so there will always be present catalysts and hosts for the virus and mutation... So at some point we will have to proceed as a society with reinstating some form of normality taking into account that a number of the population will remain forever unvaccinated... so regardless of whether anti vaccine people get jabbed or not you cannot eradicate the fact that a percentage of the population remain unvaccinated therefore all the threats that have been mentioned before will be present regardless. I am quite happy as a vaccinated person to take my chances against the virus & the unvaccinated and resume life... I’m sure there are a few of us who feel the same but cannot go about our lives as the government are trying to achieve a myth of zero covid even when in the same breath they have said that we will never be covid free... so every man woman and child doesn’t need to be vaccinated surely, the more the better, but we cannot vaccinate 100% even if every eligible person took the jab so why are we so irate?!?! People speak of logic, but then don’t apply any. They just spout the governments covid manifesto. However when you actually think about it logically it would appear that a lot of the hate that has been pointed towards the no jab community is misplaced.

The destruction that had been caused and continues to be caused happened long before the vaccine was even available... how can people not wanting the vaccine be the cause...

BonnieDundee

Read it again. I agreed with pp then said antivaxxers are more likely to need hospital treatment if they contract covid than people who have been vaccinated. You know that’s the whole point of the vaccine right? To lessen the symptoms so they won’t need to go to hospital and infect hospitals so nobody else can have treatment.

If I am unable to have my lifesaving operation because people who choose not to have the vaccine end up with Covid and become hospitalised I have every right to call them selfish.

If everyone who can have it has it maybe people, like my 8 year old nephew who needs heart surgery and has to isolate because the risk to his life if he contracts Covid is immense, maybe he could have some quality of life too plus an operation he has been waiting a year for. Our hospital has 3 covid cases at moment so he cannot be admitted because of the risk to his life. But I wouldn’t expect you to understand that. You didn’t seem to get it the first thousand times it’s been pointed out to you, on various threads.

There are many others who cannot have the vaccine for health reasons who cannot leave the house because antivaxxers couldn’t care less whether they live or die. Yes. I’ll say it again antivaxxers who spout conspiracy theories and blame the govt for lying as reasons for them not having the vaccine are selfish and ignorant.

You are taking all this very personally since you say your not an antivaxxer 🙄

@WendyWoofer is that whole message aimed at bonnie? Or was some of that directed at me too... I think the issue @BonnieDundee has with the expression antivaxxers label is that it gives the impression that the reason not to vaccinate is based on ‘misinformation’ lies etc, when the decision not to vaccinate is for a number of other reasons. The expression has become synonymous with ‘conspiracy theorist’ -that’s what I can glean from what has been said.

If it was aimed at me - I’m just a sub-decent person who finds it easy to empathise with more than one argument and I have no hate towards anyone despite the points raised so am happy to speak up where I can understand an alternate POV

@WendyWoofer the delay of treatments etc is a direct consequence of government actions/decisions not decisions of people who don’t want the covid vaccine...

The destruction that had been caused and continues to be caused happened long before the vaccine was even available... how can people not wanting the vaccine be the cause...

To overcome the pandemic we need herd immunity, so we need enough people vaccinated or otherwise immune to significantly reduce spread. The vaccine is the safest way to gain immunity.

And most people will do something unsafe at some point in their lives. Should we start shunning them ? Maybe they should wear a yellow star, while you're at it.

Please don’t draw disgusting false equivalences between people bearing some mirror disapproval for their choices that have an impact on others and the organised, state-sponsored racist genocide of the Holocaust.

At best, it’s horrifically ignorant and insensitive; at worst it’s anti-semitic.

I don't think you understand herd immunity

The alternative to being vaccinated is what exactly, letting covid run rampant and kill another 128k people? Anti Vaxxers have no decent argument, they’re just conspiracy theorists finding their ‘facts’ on YouTube or Facebook. Idiots in other words. Measles and whooping cough made a comeback thanks to ‘anti vaxxers’. Some people can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons so the rest of us get vaccinated to protect them. It’s herd immunity but a much safer way of achieving it than everyone catching it and hoping for the best.

I think the division of opinion will become a division in much more real terms because we are approaching a situation with lifestyle and travel where unvaccinated people will begin to be segregated from society by continuing self isolation and travel restrictions.
There is a new proposal today that doubly vaccinated people if they have been in contact with a Covid case will be able to lateral flow test at home everyday for 5 days and provided it is negative carry on life as normal. Unvaccinated people will have to follow normal 10 day self isolation and PCR testing.
I think there is going to be an ever increasing societal and government pressure to be vaccinated if you want to have a normal life and people who choose to remain unvaccinated will be seen as a liability.

We've got anti Vaxers in my family, I had kids with them at similar times they chose not to vaccinate. They've been spewing crap all over Facebook to do with vaccines and are not getting this vaccine either.

I'm yet to see a credible fact from them. I'd respect them more if they just didn't take the vaccines and got on with their lives rather than become really aggressive and militant over it and feel as though they can lecture people.

I don't get into debates over it because tbh I can't change their minds and they can't change mine (and you can't argue with stupid ) but i believe the majority see sense and it's only because anti vaxers are loud that they get 'coverage'

OP, because if everyone indulged themselves in such an entitled way Covid would kill vastly more people and if there is truly no medical reason that a person cannot be vaccinated then they should be vaccinated.
It is more than spouting off about making a decision that they feel is right for them and their family or some such shit it is the only scientific way to eliminate disease.
I agree with Justgettingby you just can’t argue with stupid.

There is a new proposal today that doubly vaccinated people if they have been in contact with a Covid case will be able to lateral flow test at home everyday for 5 days and provided it is negative carry on life as normal. Unvaccinated people will have to follow normal 10 day self isolation and PCR testing

I will add that those with children will have to isolate with them and test with them as they aren’t vaccinated - so creates a bigger divide and cost

Yawn. All this can't argue with stupid stuff is so facile. As if by insulting those of us who have chosen not to have the vaccine you'll somehow browbeat us into bowing down and following suit.

I suspect some of the more fervent among you would like to see compulsory vaccinations...just have a think about where that leads us.

@WendyWoofer

Nobody is bullying you. You started accusing me of all sorts that I didn’t say. I defended myself. End of.

Can you point out what I have falsely accused you of? I. Not aware of any false accusations I have made towards or about you? If you can show me where I have made a false accusation I will apologise.

You didn’t seem to get it the first thousand times it’s been pointed out to you, on various threads.

Oh, am I not allowed a different opinion now?

You are taking all this very personally since you say your not an antivaxxer 🙄

I'm not. But it being assumed by.many that since I'm not having the vaccine I must be an idiot, thick, selfish and.ignorant. I have my own reasons for not having the vaccine. They don't involve Bill Gates, microchips, 5G towers or any other such shit but it is a.reasonable concern to me and I absolutely will not defend my decision to anyone. It is private medical information

@Grenlei

Yawn. All this can't argue with stupid stuff is so facile. As if by insulting those of us who have chosen not to have the vaccine you'll somehow browbeat us into bowing down and following suit.

I suspect some of the more fervent among you would like to see compulsory vaccinations...just have a think about where that leads us.

I don't have a problem with people who've chosen not to have the vaccine. I have a bigger problem with people who've chosen not to, who then bully others and lie to others to encourage them not to have it either. Far too much virtue signalling about not having it. If you don't want it, that's fine, but shut up and get on with life without out rather than trying to coerce others not to have it, usually without sound science behind it.

As if by insulting those of us who have chosen not to have the vaccine you'll somehow browbeat us into bowing down and following suit

Yet we are the stupid ones

Grenlei I think it would be infinitely more more ‘yawn’ for Covid to stretch on another 5 years in an unvaccinated population with the associated lockdowns, isolations, travel restrictions and deaths.
Do you have no comprehension of the extreme privilege of having available vaccination.
If you truly examined your reasoning you are hoping to sit tight, be safe and let the vaccine do it’s work to make the world a safe place for you again. If everyone did as you are doing that safe place might never materialize without more deaths than we can quantify.
I think you sound facile and arrogant and you are lucky the modern world allows you that luxury.