Anyone else shocked by the rape statistics?

[Nothingyet]

I think this is shameful: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9698711/Shame-rape-justice-sex-offence-convictions-tumble.html

There's a wealth of evidence that prison doesn't work in addressing addiction and the associated criminal activity. That properly organised and provided rehab/a healthcare approach - and not shifting addicts onto another addiction like methadone either - is far more effective
Portugal is a great example of tried and tested decriminalisation against users.

You're not wrong around ridiculous sentences and time reduced.
There is one particular judge in Ireland who gives pathetic sentences to sex offenders.
He is a disgrace.
If you get him for tax avoidance he is harsh.

Been like this way too long for me to be shocked

When a man can get away with murder IF he rapes the woman (and claim sex game gone wrong), then rape isn't merely "decriminalised", it isn't merely "legal", it's incentivised, encouraged and richly rewarded.

Do a rape, for a free murder. That was precisely our justice system until only around one month ago.

Despite how lucky we're TOLD we should feel, historians and future feminists will look back upon this time as a very grim time for women, very, very grim indeed. Our grandchildren will ask us about it with pity and horror. Hopefully.

@EmeraldShamrock some of the judges are abysmal on this! And yes to them taking a far harsher stance on crimes against the state especially financial ones

it's incentivised, encouraged and richly rewarded.

Totally agree

Harriet Harman spoke about it on Radio 4 PM prog this evening
At 44.00
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000x1gj
It might be worth writing to you MP - it sounds from what she says that there is a chance of there just being further long winded reviews rather than changes and action.

128,000 rapes in a year! I’m 50, at that rate in my lifetime 6,400,000 rapes…… unbearable.

Not shocked at all. I have a confession from my rapist. My case didn't even get put to the CPS and he wasn't arrested, it was just cast aside and the police never contacted me again.

I have solid evidence and that isn't enough. It has become the most legal illegal things much like driving 71mph. Its illegal but you're not going to get any consequences for it.

It seems to me that there are mythical 'Real Rapes' (I.e. a stranger in a dark alley attacks a sober woman who is walking to church) and 'a woman cries rape to ruin a man's life rape' which is everything else; there's nothing in between. If it's not a 'real rape' then you are assumed to be lying. If you used to date the guy, if you had been drinking, if you were wearing lacy underwear, if you weren't a virgin then you're fucked basically and the CPS doesn't even bother trying to get a conviction. The man becomes the victim in that case and all his friends and family will talk about this 'false accusation'. The justice system is set up to protect men.

I'm going to be giving evidence against my rapists soon. Technically it should be an open and shut case: I was a child when it happened and there are multiple other victims giving evidence too, but I fully expect to be torn to shreds by their barristers and portrayed as a lying whore. Something needs to be done to protect victims but I don't know what. It feels like the entire system needs to be rewritten.

@Drivingmeupthewall

Not even slightly shocked. It’s appalling what a rape victim has to endure before the police/CPS then throw it out anyway.

Yep and seeing that first hand I will never recommend anyone report a rape. Just not worth it.

In the U.K., the 1% of reported rapists who actually end up convicted do face an average prison sentence of 58 months. But the average doesn’t say the full story as this is counting only the fraction that get a custodial sentence and is for all sexual offences. It is also an average and there is usually very very low sentence for adult on adult one time rape and then much higher sentence for the serial child rapists running a child sex ring being averaged together. They really should look at average sentence length by offence...not grouped together under “all sexual offences”.

There has been a lot of justified criticism of the police, support, medical and legal aspects in the thread. I'd like to add one in relation to jurors - group polarization. There are academic studies on this, and a given case may be different.

Specially, on one side you'll find a larger portion group that think the assault is incredibly serious, they have high levels of empathy. With that perspective they'll be very concerned about the victim, but also very much so about any potential for wrongful conviction.

On the other side you'll find a surprising number of people who believe in what are called those awful "rape myths" (drinking, they were friends, I've had bad sex too, it's was only 5 minutes get over it, etc.). Sadly this is not just men too.

Polarized juries make it so much harder to get a conviction. In contrast, everyone believes armed robbery is bad, stealing a car is not acceptable, defrauding customers, selling Class A drugs has to be stopped, etc.

Here is a link to a very infamous case near where I live - Career criminal and killer is released from prison yet again and is welcomed by girlfriend

www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/infamous-killer-rapist-and-armed-robber-ian-horgan-is-back-on-the-streets-40140026.html

It just boggles my mind as to how his partner can support him.

If you google "Cratloe Rape" you'll find more about the background. These people have caused havoc in our extended community for close to 20 years now, yet they have a lot of family and network support.

If anything I'd think that the numbers are significant underestimates. For example, my DSis was raped when were on a family holiday together (within the UK). She told only me, did not report to police. Also, think about all the retrospective reporting the resulting in the convictions associated with MeToo

I'd also expect male sexual assault is massively unreported. Several of those cases associated with sports clubs have only come to light recently. I was also shocked to read this interview with a favourite artists of mine I saw play live about 8 years ago John Murry www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jun/16/john-murry-interview

I have no way to know, but I expect it is worse than we think.

It's not just about having lots of evidence. The penalty is minimal.

@betterNCforthis, Cratloe sentencing for example. The ringer leader of the gang rape was sentenced for only 10 years (5 people did it, with the woman's partner badly beaten and locked in the car boot and going to set it on fire). I bet it would have been a much longer sentence in the UK!!!!

In theory we should be able to change this, but it seems a much lower priority for most people. These types of threads are mostly on less active feminism boards.

It's as if people don't want to read or post about this stuff? You'll get a lot more posts on one specific awful case, rather than discussion and action on how to improve things.

Men do all the rape, but us women living in are 50% responsible for the systems and frameworks for dealing with it.

I feel most men don't really care. And it's even more awful to think that many/most woman are not bothered enough to actively try change the system.

Yes its bad, its dreadful. No im not surprised.
Do other comparable countries have better statistics/can we learn? It does not seem so. Countries who have a more liberal outlook such as scandi and NZ seem to not be so good with sexcrimes.
If cps put every allegation to trial the cost would be astronomical, and may not result in a higher conviction rate. It might.
Short of abandoning the presumption of innocence of the accused, having non jury trials and other violations of liberal justice the only way is changing male attitudes. Not holding my breath.

Not shocked in the slightest

My friend was raped by her violent husband. There were two witnesses to the immediate aftermath and a recording of him admitting the rape and apologising for it.

She was told by the male judge she was manipulative. He then went on to admonish the rapist for his behaviour but praise him for seeking help for his problems and he was acquitted.

@MissAmandaLa1kes, Perhaps Scandi and NZ have higher reporting rates? Maybe? Maybe not?

I can imagine who sets of cases not going to police, including the many that must exist associated with trafficking industry, drugs issues, etc.

Is it better or worse than the past? Is is better in other places than here? Hard trustworthy data might be lacking?

My cousin is a currently a Sergeant in a major city, and her Dad served in the same area and reached a higher level. They be in police over a few generations. Over time, my cousin has mentioned many times the improvements in police work, technology, the benefits of CCTV, better training than in my uncles day.

One striking comment she made to me was in these cases today it's not "just traditional rape", it often includes all kinds of other stuff (anal, oral, souvenirs, follow on threats via social media, etc.) and all these extras she believes is heavily inspired by porn culture.

It's not just how much happens, it's also what.

Police start from the position of "she is lying" all else therefore follows.

Plus it takes years to get to court, why would anyone want that?

This govt has been in power for 11 years, i don't want a fucking apology, they ve done SFA because it doesn't effect them, plenty of women ministers, home secs and a female PM, still nothing done, in fact it s got worse, they even closed down refuges!

We still vote for them in their droves though.

Nothing will change unless there are fundamental reforms and the present lot ain't doing any of that.

I'm surprised over 1000 got convicted to be honest. I would never report a rape and did not report an attempted rape as I refuse to be put through the humiliation merely to be told that there is not enough evidence for a conviction. Not enough evidence to convict is the equivalent of not enough evidence to believe you to a victim.

For me an apology doesn’t mean anything if you are still doing whatever Ute apologising for.

I'm a police officer. I've known these stats for a while. I've been angry about them for as long as I've known about them.
The problem is complex and needs tackling on several fronts:
Changes to society and male violence in general.
Zero tolerance in schools.
Better education of police officers. Most who deal with rape are already sympathetic to be honest, but many approach a rape investigation actively seeking the undermining material that will mean the case is filed without charge because they know of they don't, the CPS/Defence will. This is a negative approach which alienates the victim. This is slowly being tackled as we try to take the focus from the victim and put it back on the offender, recognising that the fact the victim was drunk may be a key reason a manipulative, opportunistic offender selected her (therefore concentrating on his behaviour and suspect psychology) rather than it meaning the victim isn't credible. To present cases to the CPS in this way is relatively new but represents a sea change and I hope marks an increase in convictions. Its important because it Changes the approach from a negative one to a positive one. However, it's still in its infancy and has a long way to go and MUST be accompanied by changes to how tackle disclosure.
Changes in CPS. Cases sent by police to the CPS for a charging decision (as rape is) have to have a realistic prospect of conviction. IME this has pretty much been equivalent to beyond all reasonable doubt at even this pre-charge level. This is now changing. My force have now been told to submit anything with a 51% chance. This is excellent news. However, most will still fail to get a charge unless we add a whole lot more of CPS lawyers and change the way we try rape cases.
Changes to disclosure. Appeasing texts to the suspect, comments on a 'great night' to friends, all of which seem to indicate the victim wasn't raped can mean just the opposite. This can be a psychological response in which the victim tries to rationalise what happened to her. This needs to be understood and them begs the question of how much value trawling the victim's phone for undermining material actually has.
Getting rid of juries. Society is steeped in rape myths. Jurors are no exception. A few hours on busting rape myths simply can't overcome this and therefore a jury approaches the trial from a position of bias in the first place. It needs to be replaced with experts who understand trauma response, offender psychology, etc.
Better resourcing of police and CPS. Rape is massively time-consuming to investigate. Completing the case files for the CPS to make a charging decision may take longer than the actual investigation. If every rape was submitted to the CPS the system would break.
I could go on, but need to go out now.

For me an apology doesn’t mean anything if you are still doing whatever Ute apologising for

You know what? You're absolutely right and that's perfectly put

It's how I raised dd - her apology was meaningless unless the behaviour changed. If a child can understand that a govt certainly can

But then the likes of Patel never think they're responsible for anything

Jurors are no exception.

Neither are judges

Thanks for being brave enough to post on a thread so highly critical of the police.

Good to know things are changing, frustrating to know it will take far too long for those changes to happen

My DSis and I reported the childhood SA we went through to the police back in 2014. It didn’t go to court, because the CPS decided that there wasn’t a realistic prospect of conviction. But the police officers involved with our case supported us throughout and made it clear that they believed us about what happened and were confident that they had their man. (There was only one perpetrator to be prosecuted, as all the others, including our F, were dead. Apart from my DB, who had also been a victim.)

The process itself was very harrowing, though. It went on for two years with endless waiting around for news. We also went through photo ID, which turned out to be a waste of time, as the ID couldn’t be used as evidence, as we were young children at the time. (He was a stranger, his accomplice had been known to us but was dead.)

It was understandable in our case that there wasn’t enough evidence for a conviction. That clearly isn’t the case with other accounts on this thread, which are truly shocking and I’m so sorry got what you’ve all been through.