To think WHO are trying to commit organisational suicide? They’ve said that women of childbearing age should not drink alcohol AT ALL.

[RickiTarr]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/16/accused-sexism-saying-women-childbearing-age-should-not-drink/

it’s not just about not knowing about contraception. It’s about not having access - according to WHO over 200 million women want contraception and can’t get it.

I agree very much with this. Access to contraception can't be assumed in many parts of the world.

it’s not just about not knowing about contraception. It’s about not having access - according to WHO over 200 million women want contraception and can’t get it.

There is a deep mistrust in contraception in many countries and cultures, wouldn't it be better for the WHO to address this instead of patronising and hectoring women?

Collectively bonkers! Have they never heard of birth control? Them being drs and all that. Well women can drink if they want as long as they are not pregnant!

@FortunesFave

But they aren't giving up alcohol even when they know they are pregnant. My cousins ex drank about 1/3 bottle of vodka (70cl) then proudly announced she was pregnant. She's an ex for a reason. That said her dd has no obvious symptoms (now grown up) except she's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer, but neither are either of her parents and they didn't make her go to school regularly (with council officials involved etc) every family has a black sheep

I think in part this is to do with the fact the who is global. It’s like the extended breast feeding advice, it’s clearly intended for women in third world countries with no access to sanitisation. They always go for thr worst case. And this is aimed at women with no access to contraception, in poorer countries etc.

The statement though when you look at developer countries is appalling and this should have been thought through better.

Laydeez, let's all agree that we keep on drinking and just stop having sex with men. Problem solved.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon- that is dealt with in the global framework for ensuring access to contraception. This paper relates to alcohol and the harm it causes - so fetal alcohol syndrome is relevant, contraception provision is not.

I'm not sure women in the developing world with no access to sanitation or contraception have that much access to pinot grigio either .

Surely it's women in the developed western world that drink the most? I wouldn't say that it's "clearly intended for women in third world countries with no access to sanitation" at all...

That’s good to know, but surely if reliable contraception is available then there is no need to have women of childbearing age abstain from alcohol on the off chance they might be pregnant?
It seems odd to assume that any woman of childbearing age is potentially pregnant at any time.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon It’s not yet available - 230 million women don’t have access but want it. (I think) WHO is trying to improve this.

They are also trying to tackle many other public health issues, including alcohol.

I understand what they are trying to do, I question their way if dong it.

@GoingGently - highest rates of FAS - South Africa, Croatia, Ireland.

The incidence of harmful alcohol use are in the paper divided by sex and economic status of country - which doesn’t focus particularly on stopping women drinking at all - but it does include that troubling subordinate clause and clearly wants a reduction in FAS

@bibliomania

Laydeez, let's all agree that we keep on drinking and just stop having sex with men. Problem solved.

Amen to that! 🤣

Laydeez, let's all agree that we keep on drinking and just stop having sex with men. Problem solved.

Not sure that will help, they don’t reference sexuality active women, just women of childbearing age.

So know your place, incubator, and the pub ain’t it.

Fine - but to the extent that they should be disbanded? You said they should focus on ensuring contraception - they do. They also focus on preventing violence to women. But in their paper on reducing harm from alcohol they include taking measures to try and prevent FAS. In none of the action points does it say that this should be through prohibiting women from drinking. This is a paper that wants the prevention of harmful drinking full stop everywhere - its public health - it is trying to mitigate harm, usually through education, very rarely through legislation. It mentions as a subordinate clause preventing WRA drinking - actions from this are through good, accurate labelling of drinks and education. There is some unclear stuff about policies and I think clarification would be good but I don’t read this as preventing though legislation.

“Women likely to become / wanting to become pregnant” I could get on board with.

But if you’re not planning children, or likely to become pregnant, this is surely nonsense advice for you?

I’m child bearing age but currently “celibate” so why would I worry?

Laydeez, let's all agree that we keep on drinking and just stop having sex with men. Problem solved.

Brilliant

I appreciate their efforts, but I cannot see how treating women as being potentially pregnant at any time is a good thing.

As mentioned above, there is medication that might negatively impact a foetus, there is food that needs to be avoided in pregnancy, should we all stop eating Brie and tuna because we might be pregnant?

You might agree with it, I find it intrusive and reductive.

@RickiTarr

Quote not quite^.

Not only misogynistic but homophobic (they don’t seem to have heard of lesbians) and they use the godawful “pregnant people”, too.

After dropping a couple of balls on COVID it seems strange that they would follow up with a Gilead impersonation. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’m probably missing something or being thick, but how is it homophobic?

I also take a medication that would be much worse than alcohol for a fetus - there’s just lots of advice given re contraception and you have to sign something etc.

I’m not banned from it because I’m child bearing age! (Not suggesting you should have to sign something to buy alcohol- this medication is a far bigger deal)

But this is a paper about alcohol and the damage alcohol does - which is far greater than tuna in pregnancy, it’s not about teratogenic drugs.

It’s about - preventing mortality and morbidity from alcohol, by - universal healthcare, supporting addiction recovery, helping families of those who have addiction, reducing the burden on the justice system, reducing children drinking, trying to prevent FAS.

It’s not a paper about promoting healthy pregnancy - in which case tuna, medications etc would be relevant.

I find banning women from drinking ridiculous. I don’t find trying to prevent people drinking so much through to reduce the harmful effects of alcohol through education and - another point of the paper I meant to mention above and which is particularly emphasised - the disentanglement of financially motivated players from policy setting.

No one says it’s a paper about tuna.

Tuna is what comes next. Also, Brie beware.

The wording and recommendations also completely misses the point that children born with FAS are likely to have mothers who have significant problems pre-pregnancy. Obviously not in all cases, but alcoholism and other addictions etc, which drive women to continue drinking through pregnancy, are very different to a woman who likes to party on a Friday night but fully understands life changes once she's pregnant.

I also question the incidence of FAS and the confusion between FAS and FASD. They are considering children to have FASD if they have problems with "at least three different areas of learning or behaviour, with or without growth deficiency and with or without the facial features of fetal alcohol syndrome (which are a smooth philtrum, thin upper lip and small eye openings)"

With all due respect, three issues with behaviour and learning is also the case for children with any number of other conditions ranging from Autism to Sensory Processing Disorder to Dyspraxia.

Apparently there was a WHO representative on Woman's Hour.

According to a post on Twitter her got torn a new one.