In thinking being a SAHM is work?

[morepizza]

Work is defined as:

noun
noun: work; plural noun: works; plural noun: the works
1 1. 
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

I think this includes SAH parental duties. I know a lot of people don't agree with me. What else would it be called?

I go to work to get a break from my kids seriously though, 12 hour shifts as a carer are bloody full on but 12 hours with 3 kids is way way harder in more ways than 1. You’re doing a great job 👏🏻

People can only really go onbtheir own experience. Looking after my dc didn't feel like work to me. Doing the housework does though. If I compare my experience of working ft (before dc), working pt with dc and being a SAHM, the latter was an absolute doddle compared with either of the others. I never worked ft with young dc, thank goodness.

I agree that it's work. In the same way that housework is work. Neither of them are a job, but that wasn't the OP's point.

Personally, I wouldn't call it hard work at all, but I guess that all depends on perspective. Looking after my own dc was way easier than any of the jobs that I've ever done, but if you have only ever worked really easy jobs and/or have exceptionally difficult dc, then obviously, you'll have a different point of view.

Mind you, my job involves working with groups of 30 other people's dc at a time, so it's not exactly surprising that looking after my own two always seemed like a holiday by comparison.

It was too hard for me on maternity leave, so I went back to paid work a month early

So yep, it's work!

@Rosesareyellow

You have to perform all the duties of nanny, cook, nutritionist, chauffeur, teacher, nurse and sewage worker (to name but a few)

Please name some more because I think it’s hilarious when these lists appear. Nutritionist is new one.

This! So funny. I read one thread where someone had written a list of stuff like this on their CV rather than just "career break". How embarrassing!!

I'd love to know also which of those "jobs" the SAHPs who say this think that working parents do not do.

I really do not understand all of the spite. We all just do the best we can for our families, in our particular circumstances. I have friends who are SAHMs who would never come out with this kind of nonsense. And friend who work who wouldn't either. I am a single working parent so I find the whole debate a bit pathetic really as I do everything.

Precisely. And even if someone else could have identical kids or job, you'd still both handle it differently and possibly find different things hard or easy

That's an entirely different thread though, about someone's particular coping skills or personality or abilities, not an objective comparison of roles and their requirements/ difficulty.

@PolkadotSloth

Precisely. And even if someone else could have identical kids or job, you'd still both handle it differently and possibly find different things hard or easy

That's an entirely different thread though, about someone's particular coping skills or personality or abilities, not an objective comparison of roles and their requirements/ difficulty.

Yes but my point is this is why comparing what is harder doesn't work. Because situations and how we react to them are entirely different.

The fact that people experience things differently or cope with the same situation to different degrees, does not mean that objective comparison of situations in objective reality is impossible. Should be just chuck science in the bin and say everything's subjective? 🤣

@ProfessionalWeirdo

Hmm. Let me think... You have to perform all the duties of nanny, cook, nutritionist, chauffeur, teacher, nurse and sewage worker (to name but a few), but without the salary or status afforded to any of them. On top of this you have 24/7 life-or death responsibility for your children, yet you get no recognition, no employment rights, and no time off even if you're ill.

If this doesn't count as work, I'm the Queen of Sheba!

No you fucking don't. Cooking dinner doesn't make you a cook, everyone cooks their own dinner. Putting a plaster on your child's cut knee doesn't make you a nurse and it's a bloody insult to actual nurses who trained for years when people come out with the utter bullshit you just posted. Have a word.

Anything that requires effort is work. So, yes, raising children takes work. I think the judgement by society comes from how "useful" it is to society. Especially because having children is a personal choice. Someone who works a job pays taxes which helps everyone in society. Whereas someone who chooses to have children and then doesn't or cant work a paid job is helping their family. But why do you care? What your family feels is what you should care about. If they're happy with your efforts then who cares what Nosey Norma down the road thinks.

I’m a SAHP; I do not consider it work. It’s hard, but nothing compared to 14 hour legal career days. Housework is a close second however…

I think it depends what you do.

My situation is If I'm at home and not working id do all the housework, washing and ironing etc but I have one child at school age.

It would be very easy.

If you have more than one, dependent on age and requirements for both I.e hospital appointments, level of need for each child then it's variable.

It's different for everyone.

But I do think the value of what the stay at home parent takes care of is generally taken for granted because they are at home.

My friend has two young children with a lot of needs. She doesn't get a break because her DH sees everything as her job as she doesn't work outside of the home.
So in effect she's working 24 7.

With no break.

I want to twat him but that's another thread entirely.

As it is for me, we both pick up what we need to. I'm lucky with my DH in that sense. He sees it all as things we need to get done together whether it be washing
, ironing, school runs, pick ups etc.

@PolkadotSloth but how would you measure 'hardness'...time spent? Stress levels? Mental load? Physical load?

The fact is as individual people we find different things hard and different things easy.

That's making an objective comparison is difficult.

To the poster who questioned why other women don’t value SAHMs, my question would be why would we? They’re bringing up their own kids and looking after their own family. Nothing wrong with that but it’s not doing anything for the greater good. And before people start talking about voluntary work, most people I volunteer with through the parent council, scouts and various other organisation I’m involved with work at least part time - very few don’t work at all.

It would be like me moaning that random people don’t value how well I do at work. For a SAHM then the only person whose opinion really matters is the one paying the bills- normally their OH. If they’re happy to facilitate it then it’s good albeit a potentially risky strategy for the mum. For many families it’s the right choice for them but it’s not doing anything special for wider community. We all bring up our kids to hopefully be happy and productive adults - working or not.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

Makes me sad that no values mothers' (and it is mainly mothers') time and contribution to family and society

Do parents really have children to contribute to society?

Not all children will go onto being adults who contribute to society and raise taxes.

If I didn’t work I’d be making no contribution to the family as parenting and household tasks would still need to be done regardless of working or not. Opting out of work usually means no financial contribution so that wouldn’t benefit my family as lack of a second salary would make is worse off.

The economy needs the next generation of work force.

Most people do contribute to the economy and taxes.

If we didn't have some sahps or other people opting out of paid employment how oversaturated do you think the job market would be?!

@Viviennemary

Why should anybody but their families value SAHM's. Don't get it. Sorry.,

Less competition for your job, for starters

Being a sahm to a few toddlers definitely hard, but that doesn't last long. I have one pretty easy 8 year old and have taken a week off from my very stressful ft job to decompress this week, it's been lovely.

The house has actually been clean and tidy for a change, I've been to the gym, I've got several items of life admin done and I've met friends for coffee. I'd absolutely love to be a SAHM in these circumstances.

I have the added layer of having fibromyalgia and being a lone parent though so I tend to be knackered a lot.

[quote Sweak]@PolkadotSloth but how would you measure 'hardness'...time spent? Stress levels? Mental load? Physical load?

The fact is as individual people we find different things hard and different things easy.

That's making an objective comparison is difficult.[/quote]
In many ways. An objective comparison of the roles and responsibilities that come with them. How physically and mentally taxing and time consuming the role would be for the average person. How difficult those roles are to do - which is usually assessed based on skill scarcity. If it's something most people can do without any training it isn't very difficult. If it's something most people can do with training then it's generally classed as skilled. If it's something that even with training a lot of people would struggle with then it's highly skilled and demanding.

Nobody is saying that some people would not struggle with an identical situation more than somebody else. That's just individual variation for all kinds of reasons related to personality, preferences and mental health.

But it's still possible to say objectively that a single parent who works and is bringing up their children managing all usual household jobs alone probably has a more difficult life than a SAHP, on average. Even more so if the working parent has a demanding job. And it seems rather obvious that if two parents work full time - although they can split household tasks between them so are in an easier situation than the single parent both logistically and financially - they still have to do all of the household stuff in their time off work which is more demanding from an objective point of view than having one parent working and one parent at home doing all of that as their "job".

Obviously specific circumstances will differ like earning capacity or having children with additional needs but that does not mean that we cannot compare the "norms" for each situation and their proportionate difficulty from an objective point of view.

The economy needs the next generation of work force.

Working parents also raise children who eventually join the workforce

If we didn't have some sahps or other people opting out of paid employment how oversaturated do you think the job market would be?!

That's not how economics works. The Brexit fallacy. When more people work, the economy grows and more jobs are created. It's not a zero sum game with a finite number of jobs people compete for. This same argument was trotted out when it became normalised for more women to work after having families: "oh no! The men will all be unemployed!!" 🤣 Rubbish and did not happen. Just the same as the nonsense argument against immigration. It betrays massive ignorance that anybody believes this.

Less competition for your job, for starters

See above. Utter rubbish.

I've done both and honestly I would say being a stay at home parent is not work. It's a luxury afforded only to a select few.

@PolkadotSloth

The economy needs the next generation of work force.

Working parents also raise children who eventually join the workforce

If we didn't have some sahps or other people opting out of paid employment how oversaturated do you think the job market would be?!

That's not how economics works. The Brexit fallacy. When more people work, the economy grows and more jobs are created. It's not a zero sum game with a finite number of jobs people compete for. This same argument was trotted out when it became normalised for more women to work after having families: "oh no! The men will all be unemployed!!" 🤣 Rubbish and did not happen. Just the same as the nonsense argument against immigration. It betrays massive ignorance that anybody believes this.

We used to be able to afford a house on one salary.

Now most people need two salaries.

It depends on your definition of work and to be honest, if we're really debating the merit of women who stay home/part time /full time then we've already lost the battle.