How do farmers reconcile themselves to the volumes of animals they send to slaughter over the course of their lifetimes?

[Empanadas]

Hi, this is something I’ve always wondered. However, I was watching that Netflix series about Prince Charles and the Duchy of Cornwall and there was a farmer showing a whole barn of cattle he has obviously reared from birth, but quite blithely saying, “oh they'll all be off next week.”

AIBU to think being a cattle / sheep / chicken farmer takes a certain type of person and to wonder how they deal with their conscience in this depressing business?

Equally I'm sure there isn't enough spare land in the UK for everyone in the country to eat local, ethically raised meat, is there?

@AnyOldPrion - In my opinion it’s the meat eaters who insult vegetarians and vegans. Most of them become hostile when their dietary choices are questioned.
It’s completely bizarre, who attacks those defending the voiceless and the planet. It’s fucked up!

The amount of land argument is kind of redundant anyway since as I've said, lab-grown meat will take over from livestock. So it's not like everyone will actually go vegan and start needing to eat masses and masses of vegetables anyway.

So let's sum up ... Never been to a farm. Never spoken to a farmer. Barely been near a farm animal. Has absolutely no idea what theyre taking about.

I couldn’t do it myself, I’m vegetarian though. I have friends who are farmers.

[quote Femme99]@AnyOldPrion - In my opinion it’s the meat eaters who insult vegetarians and vegans. Most of them become hostile when their dietary choices are questioned.
It’s completely bizarre, who attacks those defending the voiceless and the planet. It’s fucked up![/quote]
Did you read my post? The insults go both ways and are generally started by those who disapprove of those who eat meat.

You say most meat eaters become hostile when their dietary choices are questioned, but you only have to read this thread to see that the OP only pretended very briefly to question and the real agenda: insulting meat eaters (or in this case meat producers) became clear very quickly.

Of course people become defensive if you attack them. A little less feeling of moral superiority and a greater attempt to actually understand the nuance of this issue would result in a far less polarised discussion.

Laughing at the person who said they'd love to be an arable farmer. Wonder where they stand on the use of pesticides.

I'm intrigued by vegans and vegetarians so hope you can help me with something I have wondered about for a long time.
If we didn't eat meat or cheese or drink milk etc, there would be absolutely no cows or sheep etc. Is this what you want? Absolutely no farm animals except on farms where people pay to see these almost extinct creatures, basically zoos.
Who could afford to keep these large animals outside the normal farming structure.
Just would Love to know what you think would happen if no one ate meat

What about the fact that so many slaughterhouses have been covertly filmed abusing the animals in such horrendous ways? They may have been given a good life but they don't get a good death. And how can you humanely kill an animal that is healthy and doesn't want to die...

How many is so many? As a percentage? Of the daily activity through every slaughterhouses?

More to the point how did they manage to get it past the independent vets like AnyOldPrion , if it is blatant, widespread and repeated throughout the industry. We don't even dare send a sheep with a slightly sore foot as it will be picked up by the slaughterhouse vet.

Do we say all care homes are bad because if the abuses that have been filmed in those?

Do we say all hospitals are cruel because of well publicised events where patients have been harmed?

Are we suspicious of all GPS because if Shipman?

You humanely kill an animal by... doing it humanely.

If sheep have such a keenness to live they should stop finding so many ways to die with zero human intervention. They excel at it.

Lab grown meat is still frankenfood and detrimental to human health long term. The big food companies won't care though. You know the same ones who produce all those vegetarian sausages and vegan alternatives. All they care about is the profit, not the ethics.

There is a good reason why there is more ex-vegans than vegans.

Do vegetarians and vegans drink alcohol? Serious question as I was thinking the other day as it's made with yeast which is a living organism ditto bread, yogurt etc

I'm such a hypocrite. I couldn't do It but I eat meat.

People are making more ethical choices and I see it everyday. My husband saw a documentary about chicken farming and that was that - he hasn’t eaten chicken since. If this happened to him, it can happen to anyone, Once you cut out one type of meat, you realise it’s not necessary at all. Then you cut out another and so it goes on. But you really don’t have to go extreme vegan.

Proponents of the meat industry always present it as a binary choice - as if you either have to eat anything on legs, or be a puritanical vegan. I don’t even bother responding to this nonsense as it’s just a stupid gaslighting tactic to distract from the actual issue. It doesn’t wash. Clearly, if people just cut out one type of meat, it’s a step in the right direction and the ramifications can be massive as others do the same. It doesn’t need to be all or nothing. Every little helps.

@Userg1234

Do vegetarians and vegans drink alcohol? Serious question as I was thinking the other day as it's made with yeast which is a living organism ditto bread, yogurt etc

Alongside the convenient ignoring of the fact that far more lives are lost per cauliflower produced than per pint of milk produced, if we want to be reductive about it.

Thank you all the farmers and associated professions who keep the farms going and providing the good quality meet and produce. Thanks for taking the time to response here, I've learnt a lot!

So the solution is lab grown meat (not yet available and won’t be on the market for a decade at least) and arable crops from abroad? Which isn’t green or ethical (no oversight of practices abroad and abuse eg slavery in Italy). This is so beyond pie in the sky you’d need a telescope to see it.

It’s a shame as maybe we do need a farming board on MN, where people can ask vaguely normal questions/ we can discuss farming issues

@Empanadas

People are making more ethical choices and I see it everyday. My husband saw a documentary about chicken farming and that was that - he hasn’t eaten chicken since. If this happened to him, it can happen to anyone, Once you cut out one type of meat, you realise it’s not necessary at all. Then you cut out another and so it goes on. But you really don’t have to go extreme vegan.

Proponents of the meat industry always present it as a binary choice - as if you either have to eat anything on legs, or be a puritanical vegan. I don’t even bother responding to this nonsense as it’s just a stupid gaslighting tactic to distract from the actual issue. It doesn’t wash. Clearly, if people just cut out one type of meat, it’s a step in the right direction and the ramifications can be massive as others do the same. It doesn’t need to be all or nothing. Every little helps.

I don't know where to even start with this judgy bollocks.

People are allowed to eat meat. It's a Valid choice. They do not need to be educated, or shown the error of their ways. And certainly not by some militant vegan who has no clue about anything.

@AnyOldPrion - It is mostly meat eaters and that’s my experience, they are goady towards vegetarians and vegans, post pictures of bacon, saying they couldn’t care less about the animal dying, telling vegans to go and eat some lettuce, or hug a tree etc.
The reality is, their guilty conscience kicks in and they fight that by becoming hostile and turning it around on the opposite team.

[quote Femme99]@AnyOldPrion - It is mostly meat eaters and that’s my experience, they are goady towards vegetarians and vegans, post pictures of bacon, saying they couldn’t care less about the animal dying, telling vegans to go and eat some lettuce, or hug a tree etc.
The reality is, their guilty conscience kicks in and they fight that by becoming hostile and turning it around on the opposite team.[/quote]
Is that what you feel has happened on this thread?

Femme99 I’m a vegan of five years. Never had this. Maybe because my family farm and we have open discussions, and I don’t judge others their (informed) decisions.

When the thread becomes “this group is like this and that group is like that” it’s beyond boring and just untrue.

Hoped I could bring a nuanced perspective but maybe read the thread if you actually want that.

Does anyone know a pleasant, friendly vegan? Don’t think I’ve ever met one worth giving the time of day to.

I’m goady towards vegetarians because (no offence) they’re useless to the cause (sort of joking! At least you’re trying!). And I only buy local and organic. But most can’t afford this life AT ALL so I don’t judge, other than hypocrites and the ill informed.

FYI even organic doesn’t mean “ethical”, a sticker on some veg doesn’t guarantee environmental benefits

Temp023 me but my family farm - parents and siblings still :)

[quote Femme99]@AnyOldPrion - It is mostly meat eaters and that’s my experience, they are goady towards vegetarians and vegans, post pictures of bacon, saying they couldn’t care less about the animal dying, telling vegans to go and eat some lettuce, or hug a tree etc.
The reality is, their guilty conscience kicks in and they fight that by becoming hostile and turning it around on the opposite team.[/quote]
I can only go by my own experience but I've rarely seen what you claim to happen. Vegans on the other hand are quite happy to shout MURDERER at anyone who doesn't follow their chosen religion. And that's what veganism is, a religion.

Dietary choices are very personal and it's natural to get defensive when faced with such judgement and intolerance. I'm not feeling guilty at all though, I buy high quality grass fed British meat (as I am privileged enough to afford it) and my health and weight is currently at it's best as it's ever been.