How do farmers reconcile themselves to the volumes of animals they send to slaughter over the course of their lifetimes?

[Empanadas]

Hi, this is something I’ve always wondered. However, I was watching that Netflix series about Prince Charles and the Duchy of Cornwall and there was a farmer showing a whole barn of cattle he has obviously reared from birth, but quite blithely saying, “oh they'll all be off next week.”

AIBU to think being a cattle / sheep / chicken farmer takes a certain type of person and to wonder how they deal with their conscience in this depressing business?

I hate shopping in supermarkets yes, because the meat and fish counters are there, very unfortunately, and to me, it’s like walking through death.

But happy to walk past chemists or beauty shops full with products tested on lab animals?

The hypocrisy is still strong on that one.

Circle of Life

nd no, I hold my hands up that I have never been to a farm or talked to a real farmer.

well, at least you are honest I suppose.

@achainisonlyasstrong

I really can't see why people have problems with farmers if they eat meat themselves! Isn't that a tad hypocritical??? But I do think people in the future will look back in horror at the way we now treat animals. To be honest I think there are a lot of cases where farm animals are treated inhumanely, kept in crowded conditions etc. Cows pumped with hormones to make them give milk. I think hunting the occasional animal for food is very different from modern farming. The reality is we eat far more meat than is "natural" (whatever that means). If we reduced our meat consumption, likelihood is we would be healthier and it would be far better than the environment. Vegans might well be tiresome but they are prob right. I think suffragettes and those against slavery were likely also accused of being "tiresome bores". But ultimately they were right!

I do think it's our best interest to change the rules and make sure the animals are as healthy as possible and it's doing us no favour to pump animals with hormones, antibiotics etc.

It doesn't mean we should stop eating meat, as we are naturally designed to do.

The reality is we eat far more meat than is "natural"
is it? I'd say we probably eat a lot LESS. Adding animal gelatine to sweets on the other hand...

I suspect it will be mostly fed to pigs and chickens who are much more intensively reared here than cows and sheep are, although some of the latter may still be given grains and soya.

I think only about 10-15% of our soy imports go to anything except poultry, pigs and fish. I think a large portion of that percentage goes to dairy cows (rather than meat animals).

@derxa

I always liked looking at your threads. You have some beautiful sheep

OP you’ve highlighted your original question again as if tens of farmers on this thread haven’t already answered it.

I think what’s unanswered to you is YOUR role and what you want from consumerism. And it’s VERY city centric and snobby to say veganism is accessible and not class defined, I say that as a vegan (I can’t remember if you said you were vegan?).

If you want to eat a variety of local seasonal plant based foods as part of your diet there are still plenty of options at various times of the year- Kale, mushrooms, strawberries, pears, apples, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, onions, leeks, potatoes, turnips, carrots, wheat, barley, oats, rapeseed oil, peas, beans, sugar beet, celery, celeriac, artichokes, spinach, tomatoes, spring onions, squash, broccoli, parsnips, radishes, water cress, rhubarb, cucumber, asparagus, beetroot, cauliflower, lettuce, berries, shallots, garlic, sweetcorn, pumpkins, loads of herbs and more. Quinoa, courgettes, buckwheat, sweet potatoes, hazelnuts, sweet chestnuts, almonds, walnuts, sunflower seeds and various beans can also be produced in UK it’s just afaik not done to scale yet. You start then.

It can’t be done to scale…

And the medications that rely on animal farming? Or would you be willing to forgo those too for everyone? Many alternatives are in the works, but we're not there yet - so whose blood are you willing to trade for your utopia? Yeah, there is a lot of nasty practices in animal farming enabled by wider systems, but we've more options than full eradication for everyone.

The family members I had who were either farmers or got off the farm generally had an attitude that life is hard, life always includes suffering but, for then, their families were fed. Others will have a different attitude, but my great-grandmother and grandmother particularly had the view that not growing food, not raising animals, not wringing a chicken's neck to feed your kids was a luxury they were grateful to have had eventually, but be grateful for those still putting in the hard work because you don't know when you're going to need their work. In a community where many families had done it for generations, it really isn't as easy as 'nobody's forced' for everyone. Not everyone wants off the farm, but the idea that people aren't reliant on it to feed their kids is out of touch with many places in the world.

Do you really think everyone can get all their calories and nutritional needs met without animal products? Including people with medical conditions with low stomach capacity and low appetite? We may be able to reduce consumption, but someone still has to do that work, and people looking down on them as 'certain kind of people' who only think about the money doesn't do anything good. There are so many other ways to push for change in production than acting like you're somehow better than an animal farmer, too good to even talk to one.

Life is hard, it has suffering, we don't make it better by pissing on some farmers from a height thinking we've more heart filling our stomachs by different farmers. I don't. I tried veganism. I now medication that has animal products in it and regularly go through periods where I rely on fortified milkshakes to be able to 'eat' anything. If we're talking facing the reality, I doubt many would be willing to let themselves have a lingering painful life with degrading function into a preventable early death to avoid animal products. A few would, no doubt, but that most have more options to stay healthy doesn't make someone a better person. I don't really see myself as a good person, never have, but I don't think I was any better when I had more options to be able to try veganism, certainly no better than the farmer whose work lets me live as well as I can.

Quinoa, courgettes, buckwheat, sweet potatoes, hazelnuts, sweet chestnuts, almonds, walnuts, sunflower seeds and various beans can also be produced in UK it’s just afaik not done to scale yet.

Please be joking about almonds. A single almond takes about 75% of the water to produce as a full litre of cow's milk.

So

I answered your original question and you came back with a load of emotive shit about me not wanting to "save" a few. They're our livelihood, they are how we make money. We breed cattle, finish them to a high standard and then we send them away to slaughter. We work hard to educate our children that this is the circle of life out here and we're very proud of our animal welfare and husbandry.

You've never met a real farmer, and I've never met anyone like you in the flesh.

It is always perfectly acceptable to say "I don't know enough about this to have an opinion" rather than going full hyperbole emotion.

@Airyfairymarybeary

I don’t see how farmers are any different to the people that are buying the meat/animal products

Me, neither. Off to fry up some gammon.

In response to the original post....
Farmers reconcile themselves the same way I do every time I eat and enjoy meat.

@derxa are you saying I should start farming those plants? I’ll have to decline as I have a full time job and zero experience or skills to do so but thankfully others do, the vegan society has a grow green project and some farmers are looking at trialling different plant crops and seeing whether they can feasibly and sustainably be scaled.

I wouldn't say the farmers like it, however the ones I know take pride in ensuring the animals are respected, well looked after and cared for and are killed in a humane way. They see it as the circle of life and what they are doing is providing food to the community.

@Bluethrough

Animals to farmer are profit, they care for them because it makes more money, they look healthier and grow faster. Now i am not saying thats wrong but any idea farmers "love" their stock is bullocks.

I love my dog, if it went lame i would nt have it shot but thats what happens to cattle.

Take a milker, the moment her yield drops/can't calve, she is off for pet food and glue, her normal lifespan cut short.

If it were any of our livelihoods would all do similar, farmers aren't any different to most people.

@Bluethrough

Your dog doesn't weigh a tonne and isn't risking breaking its other legs getting up from anaesthesia. A broken leg in a large prey animal is a death sentence unfortunately.

vegan society has a grow green project and some farmers are looking at trialling different plant crops and seeing whether they can feasibly and sustainably be scaled

How many farmers? To ever feed the whole country affordably and greenly, I mean also not intensely farming the land? We cannot feed everyone is this country by arable, and we cannot farm current arable crops without most being done in a non-organic way. I’d love to know if any group has research to suggest differently though, genuinely!

The countryside and the landscape look the way they do BECAUSE of livestock farming.

It would look very different without farming.

@Bluethrough profit? We certainly don’t make a profit on out flock of 64 sheep.

Have you any idea how much Crovect/Rycoben/feed/lick/antibiotics cost?

Thought not.

Scrowy the very best on this is Monbiot who doesn’t seem to know a single farmer and rants about the countryside being blighted by… sheep. Mate none of your pretty little walks would be passable if it wasn’t for farming, none of the areas we have as national parks even accessible. They like the scenery but not the work, almost think it’s an urban fancy class thing they don’t like the guilt of our labour!

[quote kikisparks]@derxa are you saying I should start farming those plants? I’ll have to decline as I have a full time job and zero experience or skills to do so but thankfully others do, the vegan society has a grow green project and some farmers are looking at trialling different plant crops and seeing whether they can feasibly and sustainably be scaled.[/quote]
Good luck to them growing that selection on my fields which are designated 'less favoured area'.

I am not from the U.K. and just because I happen to live in London does not mean I live any more in a bubble than anyone else. I could say some people need to get out of their “we are custodians of the land” bubble,” by that logic. We all approach issues through our respective lenses.

I used to do a job where I arranged/facilitated TOPs for fetal abnormalities, so these were later on procedures from 14 weeks until 35 weeks (the latest one I arranged).

I was extremely proud of the difficult work I did, but sometimes I did/do have dark moments about the 200 odd kids who now aren’t in this world and my part in it. It was totally right, but also very difficult, important but regrettable in some ways, work. And there’s definitely a blitheness you need to have.

I’m not comparing the two directly, but just trying to draw a comparison between jobs that involve facilitating loss of sentient/recognisable life.

@derxa I imagine they won’t be trying to grow that selection on your fields so probably won’t need the luck.