that the idea of registration for cyclists is silly, unworkable and unenforceable

[KihoBebiluPute]

This idea was featured on Radio 4 on monday morning and is also in the telegraph - Nick Freeman (the motorists loophole lawyer) is trying to drum up support for a scheme to force cyclists to register and display a number plate type thing.

I get that there are plenty of selfish and sometimes dangerous cyclists out there, but the numbers of deaths and injuries caused by dangerous cycling is a minuscule fraction of the numbers caused by careless driving and the whole idea seems totally unrealistic to me.

(1) For number plates to work as a reasonably reliable registration method for cars, the manufacture of number plates has to be quite tightly controlled - criminals do clone plates but it's not easy for an ordinary member of the public to get a plate without proof of ownership, and plates are fixed to the correct car and generally stay put. Any kind of wearable registration plate for cyclists would necessarily be something portable and would therefore be so easy to lose or nick that it would be functionally useless as a means of identification because there couldn't be any means to verifiably ensure that each plate was only ever carried by the correctly registered individual associated with that number plate.

(2) cyclists don't come into the world as fully formed MAMILs - and the sight of a 6 year old wobbling along the pavement next to a parent is quite normal. There's no sharp divide between a kid just learning and a fully independent cyclist, no test to pass or license to grant. There's just a gradual build up of skills and road-sense and a gradual reduction in parental supervision. so there's no rational way to define when someone should start being registered (presumably no one thinks it should apply to kids who are just learning)

(3) its frankly stupid to put up any kind of additional barrier to make it more complicated to make a trip by bike rather than getting in the car. It's currently just about a reasonable balance for me for a lot of journeys - a tiny bit of extra hassle to find my helmet and D-lock, but the benefit of not having to find or pay for parking balances that enough that some fraction of the car-miles I might otherwise make, generating traffic congestion and pollution, gets turned into the green alternative of cycling. Upset this balance by making it a legal requirement to wear and carry this proposed registration plate and the net effect will be to drive up car traffic at a time when we should be doing everything we can to achieve the opposite.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

A bike can cause considerable injuries, sometimes even fatal.

They don't. The numbers are up thread.

I agree it would be unworkable OP.
Which is a shame because I would have loved to report the cyclist who ignored the green man at city centre traffic lights causing me to pull dd back just in time!

@looptheloopinahulahoop

They go way below the speed limit, cycle side-by-side chatting, and cars are forced to go right onto the other side of the road to pass them

Erm - I hate to break this to you but you are supposed to go right on the other side of the road to pass them!

Totally. Going side by side also makes it easier to pass. It's easier to pass a 5x2 formation than 10 cyclists in a line. You have less length to pass and seeing as you should be the other side of the road then their width makes no difference

Oh look, another anti-cyclist thread when the issue is inconsiderate people Well no because anti social behaviour on shared paths and in parks is not systemic amongst pedestrians but it is amongst those who are part of the cycling community where it is a norm to race and record PBs etc. regardless of the rules on speed and pedestrian priority. It is a whole culture of entitlement to their own gratification regardless of the impact it has on other people trying to enjoy the paths, especially if they have dogs and children. It would take a massive shift in that culture from the top of cycling organisations and clubs down. As far as I know there is no club you can join where the norm is that you deliberately break the rules on speed and access as a pedestrian.

I'm in favour of anything that makes cycling easier and safer, but not at the expense of pedestrians. People who cycle on pavements should not use "roads are too dangerous" as an excuse. They are simply shifting the danger onto pedestrians. That's as antisocial as driving badly.

Registration plates for bicycles don't disadvantage or endanger cyclists in any way. I'll be quite happy to put on one my bike. They may reduce antisocial cycling, or at least make it possible to fine dangerous cyclists. And surely that's good for everyone?

The DVLA cost £425 million in 2019/20. That's the cost of running the current car and driver registration scheme, which let's remind ourselves does not stop around 24,000 people being killed and maimed by drivers annually.

How much extra do you think is reasonable to spend to mitigate the issues of anti-social cycling?

@OooPourUsACupLove

The DVLA cost £425 million in 2019/20. That's the cost of running the current car and driver registration scheme, which let's remind ourselves does not stop around 24,000 people being killed and maimed by drivers annually.

How much extra do you think is reasonable to spend to mitigate the issues of anti-social cycling?

You won't get an answer to this or any other perfectly reasonable practical questions from the people who are just chanting utter crap like "this is a long overdue reform" they don't have the answers because they haven't even spent ten seconds thinking it through.

As for Mr Loophole - this is surely just a publicity stunt from him.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

I'm in favour of anything that makes cycling easier and safer, but not at the expense of pedestrians. People who cycle on pavements should not use "roads are too dangerous" as an excuse. They are simply shifting the danger onto pedestrians. That's as antisocial as driving badly.

Registration plates for bicycles don't disadvantage or endanger cyclists in any way. I'll be quite happy to put on one my bike. They may reduce antisocial cycling, or at least make it possible to fine dangerous cyclists. And surely that's good for everyone?

But how will you enforce this?

It'll never, ever happen, for any number of reasons.

The fact is, we should be doing our best to encourage people to cycle, not putting pointless, ineffective barriers in the way.

What a ridiculous, costly, beurocratic idea.

After a cyclists killing deer in Richmond Park with a hit and run, there needs to be a way to track them.

I was assaulted by a cyclist on the pavement, I was lucky there was CCTV, he was caught and fined, therwise he’d have carried on with no way to track him.

@MorganKitten

After a cyclists killing deer in Richmond Park with a hit and run, there needs to be a way to track them.

I was assaulted by a cyclist on the pavement, I was lucky there was CCTV, he was caught and fined, therwise he’d have carried on with no way to track him.

So, as your unfortunate experience shows, there is already a way to track people down.

I think it's a brilliant idea.

As a motorbike rider and car driver, I have to be accountable for my actions via my numberplate - why not cyclists too.

@Umbra

I think it's a brilliant idea.

As a motorbike rider and car driver, I have to be accountable for my actions via my numberplate - why not cyclists too.

Because you haven't given a moment's thought to the practicalities. There's plenty of information about why this is a stupid, pointless and unworkable idea on this thread.

@AlfonsoTheMango

The more I think about the idea of licencing cyclists, the more I like it. Cyclists apply for a licence and, when / if they get one, they are required to weld licences to their bikes and to carry their licences and insurance information on them when cycling.

Why, when motorists don't need to carry their licences or insurance information with them?

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

Ok for those who are getting caught up by my mistake of 'road tax', ill rephrase. I think cyclists should pay SOME KIND OF TAX BASED ON ROAD USAGE which recognises their road use and the admin surrounding registering number plates etc. Hope that helps and we can now move the discussion forward.

Presumably you will also be implementing a tax for cars based on road usage? After all, if you drive an electric vehicle, you don't pay a penny.

@Sparklingbrook

Although it’s not called ‘road tax’ everyone knows what people mean by it. The money you pay 6 or 12 monthly to use the road. Don’t know why people get so wound up and touchy about it.

i always find it a bit pathetic to be honest - it is in all intents a road tax, as that vehicle is not allowed on the road if you have paid it -

I also think they should pay road tax
It's not road tax. Motorised vehicle drivers pay vehicle tax on their vehicle, and cars with low emissions pay none. Are you saying you think pedal bikes should pay more vehicle excuse duty than a car?

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Secondly because when someone says we need to focus on cyclists before the greater danger posed by motor vehicles is reduced, I suspect their motivation is less about actual road safety and more just they don't like having cyclists on the road full stop.

Well, why don’t you stop and think for moment why people don’t like them?

If there’s such a big dislike then surely there is a reason for it?
No just wakes up and thinks, oh o know, I’m going to start hating cyclist from now on.

Usually their dislike has nothing to do with rule breaking. It's all about speed (or lack of). Motorists hate having to wait for a safe place to pass. Horse riders experience the same - abuse or dangerous driving.

Usually their dislike has nothing to do with rule breaking. It's all about speed (or lack of). Motorists hate having to wait for a safe place to pass. Horse riders experience the same - abuse or dangerous driving.

What about pedestrians? I dislike cyclists who are putting, as a pedestrian, in danger by cycling too fast, in too big groups, on the pavement, by disregarding red lights and bt being aggressive.

Is that unreasonable of me? Or is it unreasonable of the cyclists?

Why, when motorists don't need to carry their licences or insurance information with them?

Aren't they required to have them in the car?

@AlfonsoTheMango

Why, when motorists don't need to carry their licences or insurance information with them?

Aren't they required to have them in the car?

No

The fact it is advocated by a man who seeks to ensure those who kill, injure or break the law to be acquitted on the basis of loopholes or technicalities should be enough to dismiss it.

Another excuse to have a go at cyclists. Not the men with small penises Mr Freeman defends.

i always find it a bit pathetic to be honest - it is in all intents a road tax, as that vehicle is not allowed on the road if you have paid it

It's not called a road tax exactly because the government didn't want to imply that it gave any special claim or ownership to the road. Not every road user has to pay it and the ones who don't have no less right to the road than the ones who do. It's an additional constraint applied to some vehicles because of their potential to mess the roads up for everyone else.

It's a ridiculous idea. Like most knee jerk bureaucracy all it would achieve is burdening the law abiding majority with more expense and paperwork for no benefit whilst the problem individuals ignore or circumvent it. You might as well legislate that every pair of shoes must be licenced, taxed and insured.

@AlfonsoTheMango

Why, when motorists don't need to carry their licences or insurance information with them?

Aren't they required to have them in the car?

Not in the UK.