that the idea of registration for cyclists is silly, unworkable and unenforceable

[KihoBebiluPute]

This idea was featured on Radio 4 on monday morning and is also in the telegraph - Nick Freeman (the motorists loophole lawyer) is trying to drum up support for a scheme to force cyclists to register and display a number plate type thing.

I get that there are plenty of selfish and sometimes dangerous cyclists out there, but the numbers of deaths and injuries caused by dangerous cycling is a minuscule fraction of the numbers caused by careless driving and the whole idea seems totally unrealistic to me.

(1) For number plates to work as a reasonably reliable registration method for cars, the manufacture of number plates has to be quite tightly controlled - criminals do clone plates but it's not easy for an ordinary member of the public to get a plate without proof of ownership, and plates are fixed to the correct car and generally stay put. Any kind of wearable registration plate for cyclists would necessarily be something portable and would therefore be so easy to lose or nick that it would be functionally useless as a means of identification because there couldn't be any means to verifiably ensure that each plate was only ever carried by the correctly registered individual associated with that number plate.

(2) cyclists don't come into the world as fully formed MAMILs - and the sight of a 6 year old wobbling along the pavement next to a parent is quite normal. There's no sharp divide between a kid just learning and a fully independent cyclist, no test to pass or license to grant. There's just a gradual build up of skills and road-sense and a gradual reduction in parental supervision. so there's no rational way to define when someone should start being registered (presumably no one thinks it should apply to kids who are just learning)

(3) its frankly stupid to put up any kind of additional barrier to make it more complicated to make a trip by bike rather than getting in the car. It's currently just about a reasonable balance for me for a lot of journeys - a tiny bit of extra hassle to find my helmet and D-lock, but the benefit of not having to find or pay for parking balances that enough that some fraction of the car-miles I might otherwise make, generating traffic congestion and pollution, gets turned into the green alternative of cycling. Upset this balance by making it a legal requirement to wear and carry this proposed registration plate and the net effect will be to drive up car traffic at a time when we should be doing everything we can to achieve the opposite.

@AlfonsoTheMango some of us have more than one bike, and are the right size that we can ride a family members or friends' bike we don't live with.

@NewUser123456789

It's a ridiculous idea. Like most knee jerk bureaucracy all it would achieve is burdening the law abiding majority with more expense and paperwork for no benefit whilst the problem individuals ignore or circumvent it. You might as well legislate that every pair of shoes must be licenced, taxed and insured.

Exactly.

Well, why don’t you stop and think for moment why people don’t like them?

If there’s such a big dislike then surely there is a reason for it?
No just wakes up and thinks, oh o know, I’m going to start hating cyclist from now on

So when someone comes past me at 60mph a few inchs from my elbow... its all because i did something? say in a past life? a future one or maybe they are just a complete cunt?

Which is what happened to me in the middle of no-where on Sunday, no lead up to the incident either.

Many people don't like kids, people from other countries, football, tennis...... women even!

Your hatred of cycling does show you are really the problem, not the cyclist.
You are lumping them altogether, just as racists do with other nationalities.

[quote RedMarauder]@AlfonsoTheMango some of us have more than one bike, and are the right size that we can ride a family members or friends' bike we don't live with.[/quote]
So why is that a problem? Some people have multiple cars and they seem to manage.

They go way below the speed limit,
@Bibidy it's a limit, not a target.
cycle side-by-side chatting, and cars are forced to go right onto the other side of the road to pass them
As cars should be. If you aren't crossing into the other lane to overtake then you aren't giving enough space. Two abreast is perfectly acceptable on most roads.

So why is that a problem? Some people have multiple cars and they seem to manage.

Cyclists apply for a licence and, when / if they get one, they are required to weld licences to their bikes and to carry their licences and insurance information on them when cycling.

Can you see the problem yet?

If all cyclists rode like the mountain bikers who use my local tow path there wouldn't be a problem. Courteous and appreciate they are sharing the narrow path with families and people not paying attention.

But they don't. Let's be honest, the average cyclist isn't the problem. It's the peloton types who are a nightmare. Aggressive, entitled and hate sharing the road.

There's one road near me which isn't narrow but it's mostly blind bends. Does the peloton narrow from 5 abreast even though they clearly know you are there? Nope. It's that kind of rider who hardens the attitudes towards cyclists sadly.

Why don’t we make it really easy for overweight people to buy cheap hyper-processed fast food while we are at it, oh wait ....

The craziness of giving even half a second’s thought to this anti-cycling idea when we are battling a crisis of obesity. What an insane world we live in.

@AlfonsoTheMango you aren't from the UK are you?

We don't move around with id on us.

Also as bikes are easy to steal, dispose off, take apart, build completely from components and cheap to buy second-hand (lockdown permitting) unlike cars it would be very hard for anyone or system to keep up with what bike a registration applied to.

because anti social behaviour on shared paths and in parks is not systemic amongst pedestrians

I beg to differ, but there have been plenty of threads about inconsiderate pedestrians during covid, not going single file etc, so we won't revisit that, except to say that cyclists do not have the monopoly for being discourteous idiots at times.

Mytiredeyeshaveseenenough
To be honest in my area it isn't peloton cyclists that are the problem.

A proper group of cyclists, riding as a bunch is one safe overtake and is much better than a long worm (that some mumsnetters prefer because it means they can squeeze past without appropriate distance). Unless the road is single track, it doesn't matter if cyclists are a bunch as no driver coming in the other direction should be on the wrong side of the road. If it wasn't a group of cyclists then it could be a horsebox, or a horse and rider, or a tractor, or other slow moving vehicle. If I've not left enough time to account for other road users the fault lies with me, not other road users.

Near me, the issue tends to be people who are using a bike to commute, but have headphones in, casual clothing and use a mix of shared paths and roads. There's a minority of drivers who are terrible drivers, there's a minority of cyclists who are terrible cyclists. It's rather silly to be as frothy as some are on here about cyclists.

@MorganKitten

After a cyclists killing deer in Richmond Park with a hit and run, there needs to be a way to track them.

I was assaulted by a cyclist on the pavement, I was lucky there was CCTV, he was caught and fined, therwise he’d have carried on with no way to track him.

With the first incident, if true, the cyclist was lucky not to be killed by the deer. Even if you hit a deer in a car it can be very dangerous.

And the person who assaulted you did so because he was a male violent arsehole, not because he was on a bike and the CCTV would have worked just as well had he not been on a bike.

With the first incident, if true, the cyclist was lucky not to be killed by the deer.

It was a fawn.

cyclists should pay SOME KIND OF TAX BASED ON ROAD USAGE

That still doesn't answer my question. Why should cyclists pay to use the roads when they don't damage them?

You are lumping them altogether, just as racists do with other nationalities.

WTF?

Although it’s not called ‘road tax’ everyone knows what people mean by it. The money you pay 6 or 12 monthly to use the road. Don’t know why people get so wound up and touchy about it

Because it's not a road tax, the money from it is not ringfenced for the roads, it just goes into the general pot.

And as I said further up, I don't pay VED for my car, so why should I pay VED for my bike which causes even less damage and pollution?

@MorganKitten you were assaulted by a human who just happened to be riding a bike.

@looptheloopinahulahoop

cyclists should pay SOME KIND OF TAX BASED ON ROAD USAGE

That still doesn't answer my question. Why should cyclists pay to use the roads when they don't damage them?

You won't get an answer to this or any sane question on the practicalities - people who think this is good idea have not considered how it would actually work. They are like idiots in the pub holding forth about things that should be "done"

That still doesn't answer my question. Why should cyclists pay to use the roads when they don't damage them?
Mot just that. Why should pedal cyclists pay more than some motorised vehicles?

there needs to be a way to track [cyclists]

You'll need a transponder embedded in the frame, then, which means detection infrastructure everywhere. I lived in a place where cyclists were required to have licenses (1980s); it was widely ignored rule although cops loved to give you a ticket for not having one -- fine was waived after bought a license at the fire station. We had some kind of sticker on the frame showing license was valid. Not remotely useful when I had 3 bikes stolen in the space of 2 years.

Didn't stop me from doing whatever cycling infringement I got caught for each subsequent time, too.

DH watches all those "Police Interceptor!" programmes, it's obvious some people are driving around in cars with fake number plates & expired VED, etc. The registration doesn't stop these things happening.

I'll support road tax for cyclists when road pricing for drivers is brought in (pay per mile, pay more in busy places). As 2-car household we will save a lot of money if per-mile pricing replaces VED.

How are these issues handled in the Netherlands?

@Emilyontmoor

Oh look, another anti-cyclist thread when the issue is inconsiderate people Well no because anti social behaviour on shared paths and in parks is not systemic amongst pedestrians but it is amongst those who are part of the cycling community where it is a norm to race and record PBs etc. regardless of the rules on speed and pedestrian priority. It is a whole culture of entitlement to their own gratification regardless of the impact it has on other people trying to enjoy the paths, especially if they have dogs and children. It would take a massive shift in that culture from the top of cycling organisations and clubs down. As far as I know there is no club you can join where the norm is that you deliberately break the rules on speed and access as a pedestrian.

On the promenade of a nearby town, there is a cycle path. All segregated properly - lines, symbols and they've even painted the lane green. I still come up against dozens of kamikaze pedestrians for whom the 5m wide prom is obviously not wide enough. Once there was even a couple sat in deck chairs blocking the cycle path - their campervan was parked in the adjacent space.

So yes, plenty of inconsiderate pedestrians on shared paths.

For the future id prefer all automated cars, then cycle routes with a crash barrier to prevent cars cutting into where a cyclist is trying to ride, and at present for car drivers to use signals especially on roundabouts ect, and for drivers to be more aware of their surrounds and heavier penalties for drivers on phones, ect. Yes certain segments of cyclists , I agree could use a cyclist training course,.just the same as many drivers could use a driver training course.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Usually their dislike has nothing to do with rule breaking. It's all about speed (or lack of). Motorists hate having to wait for a safe place to pass. Horse riders experience the same - abuse or dangerous driving.

What about pedestrians? I dislike cyclists who are putting, as a pedestrian, in danger by cycling too fast, in too big groups, on the pavement, by disregarding red lights and bt being aggressive.

Is that unreasonable of me? Or is it unreasonable of the cyclists?

I've never been abused by a pedestrian. It is motorists who seem to harbour an indiscriminate contempt for everyone else - whether they obey the law or not.

And for pedestrians to stick to their correct lane, on a park near me, two paths one cyclist one pedestrian, yet 90% of the time, pedestrians walking in both lanes.