that the idea of registration for cyclists is silly, unworkable and unenforceable

[KihoBebiluPute]

This idea was featured on Radio 4 on monday morning and is also in the telegraph - Nick Freeman (the motorists loophole lawyer) is trying to drum up support for a scheme to force cyclists to register and display a number plate type thing.

I get that there are plenty of selfish and sometimes dangerous cyclists out there, but the numbers of deaths and injuries caused by dangerous cycling is a minuscule fraction of the numbers caused by careless driving and the whole idea seems totally unrealistic to me.

(1) For number plates to work as a reasonably reliable registration method for cars, the manufacture of number plates has to be quite tightly controlled - criminals do clone plates but it's not easy for an ordinary member of the public to get a plate without proof of ownership, and plates are fixed to the correct car and generally stay put. Any kind of wearable registration plate for cyclists would necessarily be something portable and would therefore be so easy to lose or nick that it would be functionally useless as a means of identification because there couldn't be any means to verifiably ensure that each plate was only ever carried by the correctly registered individual associated with that number plate.

(2) cyclists don't come into the world as fully formed MAMILs - and the sight of a 6 year old wobbling along the pavement next to a parent is quite normal. There's no sharp divide between a kid just learning and a fully independent cyclist, no test to pass or license to grant. There's just a gradual build up of skills and road-sense and a gradual reduction in parental supervision. so there's no rational way to define when someone should start being registered (presumably no one thinks it should apply to kids who are just learning)

(3) its frankly stupid to put up any kind of additional barrier to make it more complicated to make a trip by bike rather than getting in the car. It's currently just about a reasonable balance for me for a lot of journeys - a tiny bit of extra hassle to find my helmet and D-lock, but the benefit of not having to find or pay for parking balances that enough that some fraction of the car-miles I might otherwise make, generating traffic congestion and pollution, gets turned into the green alternative of cycling. Upset this balance by making it a legal requirement to wear and carry this proposed registration plate and the net effect will be to drive up car traffic at a time when we should be doing everything we can to achieve the opposite.

I wouldn't mind registration plates for working couriers. They go so fast and take risks in busy streets.
But it's OTT for other people IMO.

And let's not even consider the passive ways cars are killing people too. This morning there were three cars parked directly next to the school playground, sat with their engines running. But it's cyclists running red lights that are the real danger.
On a previous note, children are allowed to ride on the Road, and it's the duty of car drivers to be aware of hazards and drive accordingly. A young child might wobble or veer in to your path, so slow down and give them more space.
Some car drivers hate cyclists because they're under the impression that cars have the ultimate priority on all roads.

I've just moved to Cambridge from the London area and the difference is very marked.
Cambridge is 'cycle city' but so far i've hardly seen any cyclists jumping the lights, unlike in London where it's a really common thing.
Lots of families cycle here, many pavements are wide and divided and marked for cyclist and pedestrian use.
Drivers seem to be much more aware (and even tolerant) of cyclists and behaviour on the road seems to be better all round. First impressions -- I hope I'm not proved wrong!
I'm not sure the registration plates would be as needed here but they most definitely are in London.
There, I've been nearly hit by bicycles on pedestrian crossings, sometimes they even cycle across them in the midst of the pedestrians. DH has been sworn at on the pavement by cyclists and we saw a very distressing accident once caused by a cyclist jumping a red light.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Why does anyone have irrational hatred of anyone? Because they don't understand, see the advantages but not the disadvantages and think someone is "getting away" with something they are not, and because their social echo chamber reinforces it.

And here lies your problem, the fact that you don’t want or you can’t recognise that pedestrians have genuine reason to fear some cyclists and that somecyclists are, quite frankly, twats.

Some pedestrians are twats or were certainly not paying attention during their lessons on momentum.

They step out in front of vehicles including HGVs and double-decker buses, and wonder why they can't stop immediately.

I've seen it with my own eyes and haven't been surprised the horrified driver looks terrified while trying to miss them and not plough into someone else.

I guess everyone should travel around with a reg plate regardless of their mode of transport.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Secondly because when someone says we need to focus on cyclists before the greater danger posed by motor vehicles is reduced, I suspect their motivation is less about actual road safety and more just they don't like having cyclists on the road full stop.

Well, why don’t you stop and think for moment why people don’t like them?

If there’s such a big dislike then surely there is a reason for it?
No just wakes up and thinks, oh o know, I’m going to start hating cyclist from now on.

Yes I agree. I live in an area that was part of the Olympic cycle route and the sheer amount of cyclists is a nightmare, particularly over the weekend. They go way below the speed limit, cycle side-by-side chatting, and cars are forced to go right onto the other side of the road to pass them or go about 10mph right behind them.

I definitely think there should be some kind of course for cyclists who intend to cycle on the road, resulting in a license/certificate that can be checked by police if requested. Purely just so that every single cyclist on the road has had to go through some kind of learning of the rules of the road - I appreciate lots of cyclists are drivers too, but many aren't and therefore have had no exposure to the Highway Code, meaning of road signs etc.

@MondayYogurt

I wouldn't mind registration plates for working couriers. They go so fast and take risks in busy streets. But it's OTT for other people IMO.

Working couriers move very quickly so you would be unable to get their reg plate number.

@Bibidy the speed limit is a maximum.

Also bikes can't be done for speeding on public roads

In Switzerland, cycles are registered annully or when there’s a change of ownership.
It’s an insurance in case the rider is involved in an accident.
I think it costs about £10 a year and involves a sticker and a visit to the local police station

The person promoting it comes across as a bit of an idiot really.

Plus lets think practical, a number plate has to be large enough to read at a certain distance, so every bike would have to be retrofitted with a large metal holder on the back (as every knock would break the number plate), on many bikes this would need to be mounted about the back wheel as there isn’t enough room under the seat.

Bikes aren’t registered, how do I get a number plate when my bike could belong to absolutely anyone, how do children under 16 cycle?

Registration services rarely make enough revenue to self fund, where will the money from the shortfall come from?

I do think there needs to be some form of registration and insurance.

I was hit by a cyclist when I was stationary- very windy, country road, I came round a very tight bend to see a cyclist coming towards me, on my side of the road, head down, headphones in, not looking where he was going. I could see what was going to happen so I stopped. He still didn’t look up and rode straight into me at quite a speed. He punched my bonnet and roof, shouted abuse and then rode off with his middle finger in the air.

No idea who he was and no way of finding out so I had the repair bill - absolutely no fault of my own.

My daughter rides horses and our local bridleway has become a total no go area for horses recently due to the dangerous behaviour of certain cyclists using it as a race track. Shouting abuse, passing horses much too fast and far too close. DD had a nasty fall when one actually chucked his bike at her pony and her pony spooked.

DD wears a body worn camera, but as there’s no way to identify any of them, nothing can be done

Perhaps we’ve just been lucky, but she has never encountered behaviour like this from drivers when she’s ridden on the road.

But cyclists who break the law and injure pedestrians should have to face the consequences

It happens extremely rarely, but cyclists usually do face the consequences and have the book thrown at them in a way that drivers do not. If a driver kills a cyclist much will be made of the fact that the cyclist was not wearing a helmet. From a criminal perspective, the helmet makes no difference whatsoever, either the driver was driving carefully or they were not.

Drivers kill and injure many thousands of people and the emphasis should be on improving quality of driving, not having a go at cyclists who generally only hurt themselves when they something stupid.

[quote RedMarauder]@Bibidy the speed limit is a maximum.

Also bikes can't be done for speeding on public roads[/quote]
Yes it's the limit but is also a guide to the appropriate speed most vehicles should be travelling on that road, which is part of what drivers learn in driving lessons.

Legally, a car travelling at much lower than the speed limit represents a hazard and can actually be given a ticket for impeding traffic. Research (from RAC) has shown that travelling way below the speed limit is just as dangerous as travelling over the speed limit.

It is an excellent idea and should be made compulsory along with third party insurance. Cyclists are road users. They should have the same responsibilities as any other user and that includes being able to be identified in the case of an accident or other incident. Sadly the cyclist self-interest groups are probably too vocal to make this happen.

Yeah coz car registration plates really stopped all the assholes in cars breaking the law!

In an ideal world everyone wouldn’t be an asshole but they exist everywhere and this just introduces another layer of bureaucracy to police.

I definitely think there should be some kind of course for cyclists who intend to cycle on the road, resulting in a license/certificate that can be checked by police if requested

I certainly think bikeability should be compulsory for all Y6s and Y8s (in England) at the requisite level, and unless you have a disability that prevents you from cycling, you should not be able to drive until you've proven you've done bikeability. That way, cyclists are trained, and drivers understand cyclists. I am a better driver since I did a lot of cycling on the road and give cyclists more space when overtaking than I used to. If everyone did bikeability to start with, they'd all have that background.

@FaceyRomford

It is an excellent idea and should be made compulsory along with third party insurance. Cyclists are road users. They should have the same responsibilities as any other user and that includes being able to be identified in the case of an accident or other incident. Sadly the cyclist self-interest groups are probably too vocal to make this happen.

What about pedestrians who walk along with headphones in and face glued to mobile phone screen? Do they need licensing too?

@looptheloopinahulahoop

I definitely think there should be some kind of course for cyclists who intend to cycle on the road, resulting in a license/certificate that can be checked by police if requested

I certainly think bikeability should be compulsory for all Y6s and Y8s (in England) at the requisite level, and unless you have a disability that prevents you from cycling, you should not be able to drive until you've proven you've done bikeability. That way, cyclists are trained, and drivers understand cyclists. I am a better driver since I did a lot of cycling on the road and give cyclists more space when overtaking than I used to. If everyone did bikeability to start with, they'd all have that background.

Yes I agree. Better education all round would be great.

@KihoBebiluPute

This idea was featured on Radio 4 on monday morning and is also in the telegraph - Nick Freeman (the motorists loophole lawyer) is trying to drum up support for a scheme to force cyclists to register and display a number plate type thing.

I get that there are plenty of selfish and sometimes dangerous cyclists out there, but the numbers of deaths and injuries caused by dangerous cycling is a minuscule fraction of the numbers caused by careless driving and the whole idea seems totally unrealistic to me.

(1) For number plates to work as a reasonably reliable registration method for cars, the manufacture of number plates has to be quite tightly controlled - criminals do clone plates but it's not easy for an ordinary member of the public to get a plate without proof of ownership, and plates are fixed to the correct car and generally stay put. Any kind of wearable registration plate for cyclists would necessarily be something portable and would therefore be so easy to lose or nick that it would be functionally useless as a means of identification because there couldn't be any means to verifiably ensure that each plate was only ever carried by the correctly registered individual associated with that number plate.

(2) cyclists don't come into the world as fully formed MAMILs - and the sight of a 6 year old wobbling along the pavement next to a parent is quite normal. There's no sharp divide between a kid just learning and a fully independent cyclist, no test to pass or license to grant. There's just a gradual build up of skills and road-sense and a gradual reduction in parental supervision. so there's no rational way to define when someone should start being registered (presumably no one thinks it should apply to kids who are just learning)

(3) its frankly stupid to put up any kind of additional barrier to make it more complicated to make a trip by bike rather than getting in the car. It's currently just about a reasonable balance for me for a lot of journeys - a tiny bit of extra hassle to find my helmet and D-lock, but the benefit of not having to find or pay for parking balances that enough that some fraction of the car-miles I might otherwise make, generating traffic congestion and pollution, gets turned into the green alternative of cycling. Upset this balance by making it a legal requirement to wear and carry this proposed registration plate and the net effect will be to drive up car traffic at a time when we should be doing everything we can to achieve the opposite.

In reply to your "arguments" against the proposal: (1) the plate would be welded to the cycle. (2) registration applies to all "adult- sized" bikes or to all bike owners over age 16. (3) with a plate permanently affixed to your bike, there would be no additional hassle.

It's a long overdue reform.
BTW I also support the idea of cyclists paying road tax.

It's a long overdue reform.

I think you should be required to pass a test to cycle on the road, and possibly have insurance too. Not to cycle on parks or trails etc, but to use the road with other traffic you need to understand the Highway Code.

@Mydogisagentleman

In Switzerland, cycles are registered annully or when there’s a change of ownership. It’s an insurance in case the rider is involved in an accident. I think it costs about £10 a year and involves a sticker and a visit to the local police station

I thought that ended in 2012?

Why stop there. Let's tattoo registration numbers onto people's foreheads. After all pedestrians do some mighty dumb things too and bikes are far closer to pedestrians than cars in terms of the injuries they cause (few) and the injuries they sustain (many).

I am all for it - bring it on!

Says the pedestrian who does not have a car.

@FaceyRomford

It is an excellent idea and should be made compulsory along with third party insurance. Cyclists are road users. They should have the same responsibilities as any other user and that includes being able to be identified in the case of an accident or other incident. Sadly the cyclist self-interest groups are probably too vocal to make this happen.

It isn't cyclists groups that would prevent this - it's the fact it's a ridiculous an totally unworkable idea that exists only in the minds of anyone incapable of devoting a few seconds thinking it through. As previous posters have observed , according to your logic this ridiculous scheme would also apply to pedestrians, horses and presumably cattle and sheep in some places, since they are also all legitimate road users.

@Kanitawa

I think you should be required to pass a test to cycle on the road, and possibly have insurance too. Not to cycle on parks or trails etc, but to use the road with other traffic you need to understand the Highway Code.

Yes, and you should have to pass a test to walk about in public too.

@AdHominemNonSequitur

Why stop there. Let's tattoo registration numbers onto people's foreheads. After all pedestrians do some mighty dumb things too and bikes are far closer to pedestrians than cars in terms of the injuries they cause (few) and the injuries they sustain (many).

Please please don't advocate stuff like that, even in jest, there's a significant population of idiots who would willingly agree to this.