that the idea of registration for cyclists is silly, unworkable and unenforceable

[KihoBebiluPute]

This idea was featured on Radio 4 on monday morning and is also in the telegraph - Nick Freeman (the motorists loophole lawyer) is trying to drum up support for a scheme to force cyclists to register and display a number plate type thing.

I get that there are plenty of selfish and sometimes dangerous cyclists out there, but the numbers of deaths and injuries caused by dangerous cycling is a minuscule fraction of the numbers caused by careless driving and the whole idea seems totally unrealistic to me.

(1) For number plates to work as a reasonably reliable registration method for cars, the manufacture of number plates has to be quite tightly controlled - criminals do clone plates but it's not easy for an ordinary member of the public to get a plate without proof of ownership, and plates are fixed to the correct car and generally stay put. Any kind of wearable registration plate for cyclists would necessarily be something portable and would therefore be so easy to lose or nick that it would be functionally useless as a means of identification because there couldn't be any means to verifiably ensure that each plate was only ever carried by the correctly registered individual associated with that number plate.

(2) cyclists don't come into the world as fully formed MAMILs - and the sight of a 6 year old wobbling along the pavement next to a parent is quite normal. There's no sharp divide between a kid just learning and a fully independent cyclist, no test to pass or license to grant. There's just a gradual build up of skills and road-sense and a gradual reduction in parental supervision. so there's no rational way to define when someone should start being registered (presumably no one thinks it should apply to kids who are just learning)

(3) its frankly stupid to put up any kind of additional barrier to make it more complicated to make a trip by bike rather than getting in the car. It's currently just about a reasonable balance for me for a lot of journeys - a tiny bit of extra hassle to find my helmet and D-lock, but the benefit of not having to find or pay for parking balances that enough that some fraction of the car-miles I might otherwise make, generating traffic congestion and pollution, gets turned into the green alternative of cycling. Upset this balance by making it a legal requirement to wear and carry this proposed registration plate and the net effect will be to drive up car traffic at a time when we should be doing everything we can to achieve the opposite.

I think it'a a good idea, might stop them jumping red lights.

There's been examples, multiple actually, on this thread of injuries caused by cyclists. I don't think anyone is saying that they cause as many as cars, I am 100% sure that they don't. But if registration stopped some of these incidents which clearly do happen then that's only ys good thing surely?

Or does the woman with the spine injury forced to retire at 42 due to a cyclist not matter because 'cars do it more!!'

@TwoTimingPotatoSalad And I'm not sure about where you live but if anybody confronts them, theyre met with a barrage of abuse!

[quote DocsRock]@TwoTimingPotatoSalad And I'm not sure about where you live but if anybody confronts them, theyre met with a barrage of abuse![/quote]
Yep!

Kids should absolutely not be riding on the road (unless under supervision of an adult) anyway.

There are tonnes of very young children riding around on our road too it's a pain in the arse and unfortunately I think it's only a matter of time until an accident happens.

Just the other day a girl of no more than 6 rode out from behind a parked car when I was driving past.

Who in their right mind let's small children like that out into the road on a bike.

This might be unworkable but something needs to be done about dangerous cycling, was in London last week and jumping red lights seems to be compulsory! Saw a cyclist clipped by a van in doing so, not hurt, and the cyclist swore at the van as if it was his fault! We offered our mobile number as witnesses to the van driver but the cyclist pedalled off mumbling about his expensive bike. I've seen dozens of near misses in the last couple of years too.

Once saw a cyclist so determined to go down the inside of a van he fell over when the lights changed. He saw a few people laughing at him so didn't dare have a go at the van driver who stopped so he didn't run over him.

Anyway in some parts of London if you don't jump red lights on a bike - which more men do then women - to get a head of motorised traffic you risk being injured by it. There are specific roads that are known for being very unsafe for bikes.

I personally don't cycle on roads in London where I don't feel safe or I know there is a high risk of injury or death. I either take a detour to avoid particular roads or just don't cycle.

Also I noticed in my area that kids frequently take a better road position than adults and motorists tend to take more care around them. Teenagers then take advantage of this by being stupid and even more stupidly do it in their school uniforms.....

One of the reasons i dont drive is cyclist scare me because i cant work out what they are doing.
The video recently of the man out with his little girl who barged through old couple and then the man had the nerve to have a go at them because he expected them to get out of the way on pedestrian foot path. Its a very typical attitude of cyclists.
Dont get me on e scooters, where i work in westminster they seem to think they have right of way on the pavement!

The hate for cyclists on roads by vehicle drivers always amazes me. I don’t understand why people in cars think they own the sole right to the road, just because they’re faster and safer than a cyclist in their metal box. There’s also a severe lack of understanding, such as hate for cyclists who cycle 2-3 abreast without realising this is encouraged as it means vehicles spend less time on other side of road overtaking. Instead, car drivers seem to drive as close as possible to cyclists, often dangerously so, and get angry at their simple presence on the road. Also a ton of anger for cyclists not using very inappropriate cycle lanes, which are often unsafe for road cyclists due to pedestrians wandering into them or suddenly ending and causing cyclists to go onto the road anyway.
People in cars just need more patience and reminding they don’t own the right to be on the road.
Yes there are idiot cyclists which there’s way more idiot car drivers on the roads.

It will make it easier to hold idiot cyclists to account. Red light dodgers, pavement riders, they should also have to have insurance to compensate the cars they damage and the people they hurt.

The majority of cyclists are responsible and sensible, I don't see why they would object to this. Only the MAMILs won't like it.

Well, screw them.

@TwoTimingPotatoSalad Same for those e scooters that are on the rise!

98% of pedestrians who are killed or seriously injured are done so by cars. To reduce the number of pedestrian injuries we need more cyclists not less. Most accidents involving bikes and cars are found to be solely the drivers fault. When this swings the other way maybe then we can consider registering cyclists.

I don't agree with cyclists being registered, but I do want to pick up on one thing that always comes up in these threads that cycling is good for the environment.

That never takes into account that a)most mammals are cycling for leisure - so not as a mode of transport and b) they are constantly holding up long lines of traffic, all driving slowly and stop starting, so pumping out even more pollutants into the atmosphere.

Yes, I know some people do cycle instead of driving, but a lot of cycling these days is competitive and they tend to be the badly behaved ones as well

You're right that a Physical number plate on a bike would be too small A modern world approach might be more workable.

Bikes could be fitted with a digital number plate using 5g. It broadcasts its number to substations set into traffic lights etc.

Anyone over the age of 16 registers their bike in the same way as drivers today (including mopeds).

Issues would be proving who was riding since bikes don't need an ignition key. And the millions of existing bikes that would need retrofitting. So it's probably not workable.

@TwoTimingPotatoSalad

There's been examples, multiple actually, on this thread of injuries caused by cyclists. I don't think anyone is saying that they cause as many as cars, I am 100% sure that they don't. But if registration stopped some of these incidents which clearly do happen then that's only ys good thing surely?

Or does the woman with the spine injury forced to retire at 42 due to a cyclist not matter because 'cars do it more!!'

It matters because you are diverting resources from the bigger danger to the smaller danger. I feel very sorry for the woman whose back was injured, but she is still one of a much smaller group than the group of people killed or seriously injured by drivers. It makes no sense to focus on cyclists when motorised vehicles are doing so much more damage. It's like checking you've switched the TV off when the house is on fire.

The best way to improve cyclist behaviour is better road infrastructure and education of both cyclists and drivers about what safe cycling looks like.

100% cyclists need to be identifiable and traceable. The simple fact of doing this should improve their behaviour. I'd like to be able to report the many many cyclists I see daily going through red lights, not stopping at give way lines, looking at their mobiles whilst cycling, failing to have adequate lights and hi Viz clothing, failing to indicate when turning, cutting across traffic without indicating etc etc.

Presumably you have equivalent stats to show the much deaths and injuries caused by cyclists then?

No I don’t, but I know that some minor injuries and inconsiderate cycling are not reported because of a lack of ID provisions.

Yes, cars are more dangerous, but cyclists are a danger as well. I don’t understand why they and their cheerleaders are so reluctant for measures to be taken which will protect other road users from them.

YANBU OP - Cyclist registration is one of those ideas like making people retake their driving test every 5 or 10 years and ID cards that look superficially like a "no-brainer" great idea until you look at the practicalities and realise it would be an incredibly expensive and complex mess that wouldn't work.

We seem to have almost zero enforcement of any laws in the UK - the consequence of years of us voting for parties who slash public services year upon year. I'd have more faith in the possibility of cyclist registration if there were enough Police resources to enforce it - which ironically would mean it wasn't needed as the Police could deal with the bad cyclists.

Something needs to be done. Our area is impossible to get through at the moment. Between cyclists / just eat drivers / electric scooters and micro scooters.
We crossed a road only last week at a zebra crossing and a cyclist didn’t think the rules applied to him nearly knocking us over.

My child was knocked over and required stitches when an adult cyclist knocked him over on a pavement. I also know another child knocked over by an adult cyclist (in a park) and required hospital treatment. Neither cyclist had any repercussions

Cyclists statistically are not a significant danger on the roads. Drivers are.

I’m not so sure about that. When you look into contributory factors under the headings of injudicious action, driver/rider error or reaction and behaviour or inexperience and then look at the total miles traveled, cyclists are causing more than 5 times as many accidents as car drivers. 1404 accidents per billion vehicle miles for cyclists vs 260 for car drivers. Please feel free to check my maths and correct me but that’s certainly how it appears.

Re: going through red lights.

Yes some idiots do it in a dangerous way. However, what about this scenario:

I am on my bike having stopped for a red light, I have a lorry or white van immediately behind me and the gap between the edge of the road and the bollards in the centre are not wide enough for that vehicle to overtake me safely. However, my experience has taught me that 90% of the time they will do their best to overtake me unsafely anyway as soon as the light goes greeen because they can't stand waiting a few seconds.

In that scenario then yes I will start moving on my bike while the light is still red (having identified that traffic in other directions has stopped and my light will be going green in a few seconds) so that I can be beyond the traffic lights and in a more open part of road by the time the vehicle has been allowed to go, and the overtaking will then be marginally safer for me.

Likewise if a pedestrian crossing light goes red, and the pedestrian has finished crossing and the road is clear, it is far safer for me to get moving on my bike as quickly as possible without waiting for the green, rather than waiting for the green and then be starting moving at the same time as the impatient motor vehicle behind me. Obviously I give way to the pedetrians but once they are out of harm's way I am not going to let a red light keep me in the danger zone of a vehicle that is likely to do me harm. These are just a couple of examples of when a cyclist with reasonably good road skills takes a balanced judgement of the relative dangers of different actions and may choose moving through a red light as being the least dangerous option.

Some of the traffic lights in my city acknowledge how common this scenario is, and have installed separate "bike" traffic lights which go green for bikes 5 seconds before the green for cars. If all traffic lights got this adaption then that would be really helpful.

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

Im not an 'anti cyclist twat' but I agree that the minority should be held accountable for dangerous road use when they're cycling like a bellend. I also think they should pay road tax.

Road Tax hasn't existed since 1937.

Sorry, but Im all for it. Im sick of entitled cyclists who whizz all over our footpaths and pavements, barely giving you time to avoid them. They are road users , they should have the same rules and regs as others. If they knock you down and you suffer an injury, at present they can supply a 'mickey mouse' address then gaily cycle off. You, meanwhile have no way off identifying them. The law regarding cyclists has needed changing for a long time. If you want to cycle,scooter etc you should be made to pass a test, the same as a motorist. Ive had constant arguments with cyclists whizzing through pedestrian crossings(green man),while I have been crossing the road. For some reason, the rules never apply to them.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Presumably you have equivalent stats to show the much deaths and injuries caused by cyclists then?

No I don’t, but I know that some minor injuries and inconsiderate cycling are not reported because of a lack of ID provisions.

Yes, cars are more dangerous, but cyclists are a danger as well. I don’t understand why they and their cheerleaders are so reluctant for measures to be taken which will protect other road users from them.

Firstly because they are generally unworkable, being proposed by people who don't cycle, don't understand how cycling on the roads works and therefore think simplistically "on road == must treat like cars == all good".

Secondly because when someone says we need to focus on cyclists before the greater danger posed by motor vehicles is reduced, I suspect their motivation is less about actual road safety and more just they don't like having cyclists on the road full stop.

Ok for those who are getting caught up by my mistake of 'road tax', ill rephrase. I think cyclists should pay SOME KIND OF TAX BASED ON ROAD USAGE which recognises their road use and the admin surrounding registering number plates etc. Hope that helps and we can now move the discussion forward.

@StuffinThePuffin

They are on the road. They are part of the traffic. They can be part of collisions. They need to be identifiable.

So are pedestrians. Should we hang a reg plate from them too? Then when someone steps out without looking...

As for the lunacy which is e-scooters, those things are an absolute menace.