that the idea of registration for cyclists is silly, unworkable and unenforceable

[KihoBebiluPute]

This idea was featured on Radio 4 on monday morning and is also in the telegraph - Nick Freeman (the motorists loophole lawyer) is trying to drum up support for a scheme to force cyclists to register and display a number plate type thing.

I get that there are plenty of selfish and sometimes dangerous cyclists out there, but the numbers of deaths and injuries caused by dangerous cycling is a minuscule fraction of the numbers caused by careless driving and the whole idea seems totally unrealistic to me.

(1) For number plates to work as a reasonably reliable registration method for cars, the manufacture of number plates has to be quite tightly controlled - criminals do clone plates but it's not easy for an ordinary member of the public to get a plate without proof of ownership, and plates are fixed to the correct car and generally stay put. Any kind of wearable registration plate for cyclists would necessarily be something portable and would therefore be so easy to lose or nick that it would be functionally useless as a means of identification because there couldn't be any means to verifiably ensure that each plate was only ever carried by the correctly registered individual associated with that number plate.

(2) cyclists don't come into the world as fully formed MAMILs - and the sight of a 6 year old wobbling along the pavement next to a parent is quite normal. There's no sharp divide between a kid just learning and a fully independent cyclist, no test to pass or license to grant. There's just a gradual build up of skills and road-sense and a gradual reduction in parental supervision. so there's no rational way to define when someone should start being registered (presumably no one thinks it should apply to kids who are just learning)

(3) its frankly stupid to put up any kind of additional barrier to make it more complicated to make a trip by bike rather than getting in the car. It's currently just about a reasonable balance for me for a lot of journeys - a tiny bit of extra hassle to find my helmet and D-lock, but the benefit of not having to find or pay for parking balances that enough that some fraction of the car-miles I might otherwise make, generating traffic congestion and pollution, gets turned into the green alternative of cycling. Upset this balance by making it a legal requirement to wear and carry this proposed registration plate and the net effect will be to drive up car traffic at a time when we should be doing everything we can to achieve the opposite.

PortMerrionCentre.....not able to quote.

The thread is about cyclists incase you missed that, so i was commenting on cyclists.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

There is no such thing as road tax

You know exactly what posters mean by that. You can go on splitting hair but it's petty and won't help your cause.

Its not at all, i don't pay any road tax for my 1.6 Octavia, its zero rated

Anyway, where could any number plate large enough to be visible be put on a bike?

There is an argument for 3rd party insurance, perhaps making it part of car and household insurance at a nominal cost? there by covering all ages etc.

But really, cycling needs to be seen as (part of) the solution to transport issues, pollution and climate change.

At the moment, too many see cyclists as a PiA because they have been delayed by 30 seconds but contrastingly happy to spend 4 hours on the A303 or everyday 90mins commuting 10 miles into work -

the manufacture of number plates has to be quite tightly controlled - criminals do clone plates but it's not easy for an ordinary member of the public to get a plate without proof of ownership

It couldn’t be easier to get plates made without documents. I get plates made fairly regularly and there are quite a number of online plate companies with next day delivery, no documentation required. The whole law around this is completely null and void, not once have I provided documentation since this law came into being.

@DocsRock

I think they should. In my area, there's a mass increase of lads on bikes, usually with balaclavas on (!!!), who happily ride intimidatingly in front of cars in their big groups. And not to mention their dangerous behaviours.

If they could be identified by a number plate, they could be reported the same way a car driver would be for dangerous driving.

Yes I see this too. Gangs of teenagers riding around on the road.

There's no cyclist registration in the Netherlands.
There are nearly always segregated pedestrian/cycle routes.
Cyclists have right of way over cars.
You can still be fined for jumping lights/using pavements.
They understand the difference between functional cycling and sport/speed cycling.

It's a combination of infrastructure and a considerate attitude, both of which are unlikely to happen in the UK.

Tory council with a Tory government. Unlikely.

It happens in my Tory area. But if it were required nationally because of new registration regulations it would be a good thing.

Also registration doesn't make kids safer

No, but the training required to get registration would.

“Also registration doesn't make kids safer.

What makes users of non-motorised vehicles safer on the roads is reduced speed limits - which has already happened in loads of built up area.

And repairing pot holes in the road.

And utility suppliers not digging up the roads all the time.”

Of course registration makes it safer. If someone thinks there is a chance he will be caught and held responsible then they will be more careful.

Of course everything else you listed needs to be done as well, it does but have to one or the other.

@Cabinfever10

Having been seriously hurt by a cyclist (broken bone) whilst walking on a pedestrian path (cycle path seperate) and Having watched the cyclist speed off with no consequences whilst giving me abuse for not getting out of his way quickly enough 🤨🤬 I am all for licensing cyclists and making them legally responsible for their actions which will require that they are identifiable

I agree.

A former colleague was hit by a cyclist who rode through a red pedestrian light when she was crossing a road in a busy town centre. He didn't stop. She suffered damage to her spine, he hit her so hard that she was thrown backwards onto the kerb.

She never fully recovered and had to take medical retirement at the age of 42. She's in constant pain, and the things she can do now are very much restricted.

Had he been identifiable, and insured, she would at least have got some financial compensation for her injuries. Instead, she is now reliant on benefits.

Cyclists are a menace where I live. They ride on the narrow pavements and swear at people when they don't get out of their way as quickly as they would like. I had my arm clipped by a cyclist in a "shared space" in the town centre, a friend was nearly knocked off her feet by one who cannoned into her in a pedestrian precinct.

They are also a menace in the countryside, and seem unable to distinguish between bridleways and footpaths, even when they have to lift their bikes over the kissing gates and stiles that have been put in to keep bikes out. Someone's dog was hit at speed by a cyclist speeding downhill on a public footpath in a field widely used by dog walkers. The dog's surgery cost over £600. One of my dogs was so freaked out by bikes roaring past that he barked like mad and lunged at any cyclist that came close.

And then there's the friend whose large estate car was scraped along almost the entire length of one side by a cyclist trying to weave through stationary traffic - again, he failed to stop.

I realise that most cyclists aren't like this, but these idiots are a significant enough minority for there to be a need for registration.

@NotMeNoNo

There's no cyclist registration in the Netherlands. There are nearly always segregated pedestrian/cycle routes. Cyclists have right of way over cars. You can still be fined for jumping lights/using pavements. They understand the difference between functional cycling and sport/speed cycling.

It's a combination of infrastructure and a considerate attitude, both of which are unlikely to happen in the UK.

That sounds sensible. In my town (England) there's a weird mix of cycle lanes that just end abruptly, and no cycle lanes at all. There's one all down the main road by two schools, it's painted onto the left hand side of the road (not separate) and all the school parents park on it to drop their children off.

You need to keep cyclists and cars separate IMO to do it properly and then people might be more keen to cycle.

While I agree with it being of an ott idea. I do think cars need to be a bit more tolerant of cyclists and well as the opposite.
Ide be too scared to ride my bike on the road purely because drivers dont know how to react to cyclists on the road.

Of course registration makes it safer. If someone thinks there is a chance he will be caught and held responsible then they will be more careful

Works well for cars doesn't it?

Over 2m cars on the roads uninsured, 1800 deaths, inc 300 kids.....

Cyclists and pedestrians are the victims in road accidents, they rarely cause them.

As a cyclist, the idea seems reasonable to me. As a pedstrian, I’m hugely in favour.

Cyclists need to be accountable. Most I've encountered are fucking dicks.
How ridiculous. I ride my bike everyday. Guess what? The people who ride like dicks also drive like dicks and live their lives like dicks. Anti-social behaviour in general is a problem but cyclists are not to blame per se. And putting barriers up to cycling will just make things worse. I hate people riding on pavements but a lot of people do it because they genuinely feel unsafe on the roads Solve that and a lot of the problem will go away.

pedstrian = pedestrian

Also, I think shared cycle paths are a hopeless half hearted solution, but they would be much safer using the same rule as roads:

Walk on the right
Ride/scoot on the left.

Basically leave some room for a cyclist coming from behind to pass you.

I hated having bikes everywhere in Amsterdam, they're not as easy to spot and when you are constantly have to cross cycle lanes as a pedestrian I felt it was quite dangerous. I wouldn't want to live there. I think having training on using the road safely and a registration is a great idea. But not taxed as that's ridiculous.

This might be unworkable but something needs to be done about dangerous cycling, was in London last week and jumping red lights seems to be compulsory! Saw a cyclist clipped by a van in doing so, not hurt, and the cyclist swore at the van as if it was his fault! We offered our mobile number as witnesses to the van driver but the cyclist pedalled off mumbling about his expensive bike. I've seen dozens of near misses in the last couple of years too.

Bikes on the road really should have 3rd party insurance, I do for mine, was in with the theft policy. Reflective clothing compulsory at night at least and lights (year I know they are compulsory but where I lived only about 2/3 on the roads bothered)

Works well for cars doesn't it?

It does, when you look up the number if deaths and injuries compared to total amount of car trips.,

Cyclists and pedestrians are the victims in road accidents, they rarely cause them

It’s pedestrians who are the victims in RTAs and who rarely cause them.

@NotMeNoNo

There's no cyclist registration in the Netherlands. There are nearly always segregated pedestrian/cycle routes. Cyclists have right of way over cars. You can still be fined for jumping lights/using pavements. They understand the difference between functional cycling and sport/speed cycling.

It's a combination of infrastructure and a considerate attitude, both of which are unlikely to happen in the UK.

I've been to other places in Northern Europe and been amazed at their cycle infrastructure e.g. proper cycle lane. However even when it isn't the attitude from all road users is different.

Yanbu. It's just another ridiculous distraction story cooked up by the Tory supporting press. Will never happen.

And re the point about 10 year olds riding adult bikes... Why are they out on the road alone anyway? They can ride on the road with an insured and registered adult.

@CovidCorvid

So Nick Freeman is trying to do something which he reckons would improve safety on the roads......while simultaneously getting rich twats who speed, etc off a driving ban!? How does he square that?

Because in his view, being behind the wheel of a car should grant god-like power and infallibility, and it is anathema that cyclists should exist and make it more complicated for the drivers to enjoy this rightful power?

Cyclist/bicycle registration is an idea that comes up regularly from people who don't cycle, don't understand how the road works and either don't like the idea that someone has life easier than them, resent cyclists "getting away" with something that they can't, or have extrapolated one or two bad experiences with cyclists into the idea that there is a huge lycra-clad menace mowing down pedestrians, drivers and lorries left, right and centre despite magically not showing up in the road KSI stats at all.

Every country that tried this gave up because the costs of the scheme didn't justify the benefits.

The countries that do have bike registration schemes use them as anti-theft schemes not cyclist restriction schemes.

So called "road tax" is not and never has been payment to use the roads. It's payment to use a motor vehicle on the roads, because they are dangerous and need to be controlled.

Road funding comes from general taxation so we all pay it. That means firstly that this much-vaunted "road tax" does not, in fact, cover the actual cost of the roads so cyclists and every other tax payer without a car are actually subsidising drivers, and secondly if we are going to base right to the roads based on "who pays for it", given that my annual tax bill is higher than the UK average wage I reckon that gives me a greater right to the roads than most of the drivers. So let's not go there.

Cyclists statistically are not a significant danger on the roads. Drivers are.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Works well for cars doesn't it?

It does, when you look up the number if deaths and injuries compared to total amount of car trips.,

Presumably you have equivalent stats to show the much deaths and injuries caused by cyclists then?