that the idea of registration for cyclists is silly, unworkable and unenforceable

[KihoBebiluPute]

This idea was featured on Radio 4 on monday morning and is also in the telegraph - Nick Freeman (the motorists loophole lawyer) is trying to drum up support for a scheme to force cyclists to register and display a number plate type thing.

I get that there are plenty of selfish and sometimes dangerous cyclists out there, but the numbers of deaths and injuries caused by dangerous cycling is a minuscule fraction of the numbers caused by careless driving and the whole idea seems totally unrealistic to me.

(1) For number plates to work as a reasonably reliable registration method for cars, the manufacture of number plates has to be quite tightly controlled - criminals do clone plates but it's not easy for an ordinary member of the public to get a plate without proof of ownership, and plates are fixed to the correct car and generally stay put. Any kind of wearable registration plate for cyclists would necessarily be something portable and would therefore be so easy to lose or nick that it would be functionally useless as a means of identification because there couldn't be any means to verifiably ensure that each plate was only ever carried by the correctly registered individual associated with that number plate.

(2) cyclists don't come into the world as fully formed MAMILs - and the sight of a 6 year old wobbling along the pavement next to a parent is quite normal. There's no sharp divide between a kid just learning and a fully independent cyclist, no test to pass or license to grant. There's just a gradual build up of skills and road-sense and a gradual reduction in parental supervision. so there's no rational way to define when someone should start being registered (presumably no one thinks it should apply to kids who are just learning)

(3) its frankly stupid to put up any kind of additional barrier to make it more complicated to make a trip by bike rather than getting in the car. It's currently just about a reasonable balance for me for a lot of journeys - a tiny bit of extra hassle to find my helmet and D-lock, but the benefit of not having to find or pay for parking balances that enough that some fraction of the car-miles I might otherwise make, generating traffic congestion and pollution, gets turned into the green alternative of cycling. Upset this balance by making it a legal requirement to wear and carry this proposed registration plate and the net effect will be to drive up car traffic at a time when we should be doing everything we can to achieve the opposite.

I dislike cyclists who are putting, as a pedestrian, in danger by cycling too fast, in too big groups, on the pavement, by disregarding red lights and bt being aggressive

So do I, but the only annoying (and it's just annoying) thing I see is people (usually young lads) riding on the pavements.

In London you get them going through red lights and dinging their bells indiscriminately regardless of whether any pedestrian is within 100m of them, but that's London and not elsewhere. But it's just annoying, they will only hurt themselves.

Drivers overtaking cyclists unsafely put cyclists and often the occupants of oncoming vehicles at risk.

I would tolerate the abuse from drivers if I was actually being a dick on the bike but I’m just minding my own business out and about. The problem is they wind down their window and shout at you for stuff that maybe they saw a cyclist do once but probably not this week and definitely not you. I live right on the edge of a town with very few traffic lights. I would say at least 90% of my rides do not even feature a set of traffic lights, yet I have had a passenger in a close passing car hoss a cup of sticky drink at me riding along and yell that I’m a red light jumping c**t. This is the sort of behaviour that makes cyclists turn against motorists because it’s entirely an unprovoked attack and it’s very dangerous. FWIW I pay the same ‘road tax’ for my bike as I do for my Mercedes (£0) and the bikes collectively cost almost the same as the car did when I bought it so you can bet your house they are insured and with it that’s 3rd party cover too. I ride to work on my own so not 2 abreast but I’ve been shouted at to get single file before and I average 18-20mph so I’m not that slow given most of the housing areas are 20mph limits there’s not that much holding up going on either. I’m literally being abused just for being there, despite ticking every box that drivers seem to want cyclists to do when these threads appear.

Regular cyclists hate the red light jumping pavement hopping cyclists too and would also be in favour of more being done but it needs more police on city centre streets to do it, because they make our lives much more difficult, but the good drivers (of which most people are, I think that sometimes gets forgotten in these threads) don’t seem to ever be calling out the bad driving, rather just jumping on the all cyclists are twats bandwagon.

[quote RedMarauder]@AlfonsoTheMango you aren't from the UK are you?

We don't move around with id on us.

Also as bikes are easy to steal, dispose off, take apart, build completely from components and cheap to buy second-hand (lockdown permitting) unlike cars it would be very hard for anyone or system to keep up with what bike a registration applied to.[/quote]
Why can't this information be accessed through mobile phones, then?

Oh, I know. It's because in the UK no one carries their mobile phone with them.

It's the peloton types who are a nightmare. Aggressive, entitled and hate sharing the road.

Yes. We are having major issues with this kind of behaviour on our local bridleway.

A bridleway has become a no-go for horse riders due to the behaviour of cyclists using it. It’s not a minority either unfortunately

Why can't this information be accessed through mobile phones, then?

Oh, I know. It's because in the UK no one carries their mobile phone with them.
Hang on - now I have to take my phone every time I go for a ride? Actually that's probably not a bad idea - now what are you going to want to weld to my phone again?
I notice you haven't bothered to answer any actual questions.

This sort of law will never be brought in because there is simply not enough resources to implement it. Because of the relative danger posed by a vehicle disobeying the highway code compared to a bike (and both are operated by humans), resources will always be concentrated on the vehicles.

I have stood at the nearest traffic lights to my house at rush hour and witnessed an average of 4 vehicles jumping the red lights at each change. Once it was 6 vehicles and the green man was on. This is every time I'm at those lights. Yes I've seen bikes jump the lights too but not to the same extent as vehicles and despite each vehicle having a registration plate and having to have insurance by law, they still all broke the law. And no neither I nor anyone else reported them.

So logically thinking, why would making all cyclists register their bikes make any difference? Assholes will be assholes no matter their chosen form of transport for the day. Some walk, some drive and some ride bikes but the common denominator is that they are assholes and they don't abide by laws anyway so introducing more won't make any difference.

@lampygirl

I would tolerate the abuse from drivers if I was actually being a dick on the bike but I’m just minding my own business out and about. The problem is they wind down their window and shout at you for stuff that maybe they saw a cyclist do once but probably not this week and definitely not you. I live right on the edge of a town with very few traffic lights. I would say at least 90% of my rides do not even feature a set of traffic lights, yet I have had a passenger in a close passing car hoss a cup of sticky drink at me riding along and yell that I’m a red light jumping c**t. This is the sort of behaviour that makes cyclists turn against motorists because it’s entirely an unprovoked attack and it’s very dangerous. FWIW I pay the same ‘road tax’ for my bike as I do for my Mercedes (£0) and the bikes collectively cost almost the same as the car did when I bought it so you can bet your house they are insured and with it that’s 3rd party cover too. I ride to work on my own so not 2 abreast but I’ve been shouted at to get single file before and I average 18-20mph so I’m not that slow given most of the housing areas are 20mph limits there’s not that much holding up going on either. I’m literally being abused just for being there, despite ticking every box that drivers seem to want cyclists to do when these threads appear.

Regular cyclists hate the red light jumping pavement hopping cyclists too and would also be in favour of more being done but it needs more police on city centre streets to do it, because they make our lives much more difficult, but the good drivers (of which most people are, I think that sometimes gets forgotten in these threads) don’t seem to ever be calling out the bad driving, rather just jumping on the all cyclists are twats bandwagon.

This is awful and I've been on the receiving end of similar - a family who thought it was highly amusing for their kids to hurl abuse and litter at me as they passed me (way too close) on a quiet straight country road.

More Police not more daft laws would be better.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Cyclists need to start respecting pedestrians and the Highway Code. if the way to do that is by registering and issuing number plates, then I'm all for it.

I really hope that's a typo in your post EnjoingtheSilence.

Never seen a cyclist "disrespect" a pedestrian.

I have on multiple occasions approached a pedestrian crossing, lights green, to have a mob of people wait until the car in front of me has gone past and then swarm out directly into my path.

So I think a registration and identification scheme for pedestrians is very much in order. I can see it taking the form of a barcode tattoo applied to forehead at birth. Anyone walking around outside without adequate insurance and a health check to prove they're safe to do so, should be arrested.

Never seen a cyclist "disrespect" a pedestrian.

I’ve never used the word “disrespect”.

Showing respect to other road users works be following the rules.

@Mintjulia

How are these issues handled in the Netherlands?

In the Netherlands there is a completely different culture. I should imagine any cyclist who went in a pedestrian area or jumped a red light would by lynched by fellow law abiding Dutch people.

They don't register bikes or have a helmet law either as far as I know. Casual/day to day cycling isn't seen as a threat or a dangerous activity.

They don't register bikes or have a helmet law either as far as I know. Casual/day to day cycling isn't seen as a threat or a dangerous activity.
Presumably because people don't generally ride like entitled pricks because anyone who did would be called out be everyone else.

I really like The Netherlands.

On the face of it it seems unworkable, but in reflection if we can have a system for drivers why would we not be able to introduce something for the smaller number of cyclists.

I have not read the full thread but have read first few of OPs posts and my motivation is safer roads for all users including pedestrians, not because I want to break laws like far too many cyclists do.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Never seen a cyclist "disrespect" a pedestrian.

I’ve never used the word “disrespect”.

Showing respect to other road users works be following the rules.

My apologies - I hadn't realised the English language caused you such problems.

In the Netherlands there is a completely different culture. I should imagine any cyclist who went in a pedestrian area or jumped a red light would by lynched by fellow law abiding Dutch people.

Good lord no! Cyclists are all over the place and yes they do jump lights, in Amsterdam at least. I don't and when I cycled round Amsterdam I was unusual.

What is different is firstly the presumed (not strict) liability rules that say in the absence of evidence to the contrary the person in the most damaging class of vehicle is presumed to be at fault, and that drivers are very used to cyclists and most cycle themselves so they expect cyclists to be on the road, can anticipate them as easily as they can drivers, and have a rational assessment of what is actually dangerous both to and by cyclists.

Also, while the Netherlands is flat, the headwinds make up for the lack of hills!

Also IIRC the Dutch drivers do get grumpy if cyclists are not in the cycle lanes, which is fair enough given they are well designed and fit for purpose.

I'd support presumed liability if it extended to drivers of Chelsea tractors, BMWs and Audis, even in collisions with other cars.

Agree about the design of cycle lanes in the Netherlands. As opposed to the box ticking ones installed where they exist in the UK.

I wouldn't say that English is a problematic language for me. Quite the opposite.

I just never used that particular word. I'm sorry if reading presents a challenge for you.

Typing can be a bit of a problem for me occasionally, but picking on that would be quite a sad thing to do. Anyway, if that floats you boat, by all means.

@OooPourUsACupLove to be fair I'm only going on evidence of a couple of holidays, I remember seeing pedestrians ticked off by police for jaywalking though.

@Aprilx

On the face of it it seems unworkable, but in reflection if we can have a system for drivers why would we not be able to introduce something for the smaller number of cyclists.

I have not read the full thread but have read first few of OPs posts and my motivation is safer roads for all users including pedestrians, not because I want to break laws like far too many cyclists do.

Why do you think there are fewer cyclists than drivers? How many bikes do you think there are and how does that compare with numbers of cyclists? What sort of system do you advocate, exactly?

@newnortherner111

I'd support presumed liability if it extended to drivers of Chelsea tractors, BMWs and Audis, even in collisions with other cars.

Agree about the design of cycle lanes in the Netherlands. As opposed to the box ticking ones installed where they exist in the UK.

Eh? So any person/bike/person in a smaller car can pull any daft stunt they like safe in the knowledge that if I hot them with my "Chelsea Tractor" I'll be judged at fault? I don't think that would make things better.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

I wouldn't say that English is a problematic language for me. Quite the opposite.

I just never used that particular word. I'm sorry if reading presents a challenge for you.

It's just the spelling mistakes, childish manner and apparently a complete lack of awareness of antonyms....

Clearly you have multiple challenges.....

Oh bless you child!

This has been an interesting thread.

Although I am neither a driver nor a cyclist, I thought that there would be an argument that would help me to understand the pros and cons of the proposal.

Regrettably, all that it has done is to give me a poor opinion of cyclists.

@Aprilx yes there is a system for vehicles and the laws still get broken and injuries and deaths still occur. So why introduce yet more laws? The laws already in place are adequate but there aren’t enough resources to ensure adherence so what actually is the point?