AIBU to think Maya scored a victory for common sense today?

[DancesWithTortoises]

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1402922169559044096?s=20

news.sky.com/story/maya-forstater-woman-who-lost-job-over-transgender-views-wins-appeal-against-employment-tribunal-12329249

The law just cannot be allowed to tell people what to think.

Hurrah for Maya!

What other wording would you like? Women and people who menstruate?

I think most of us are happy as long as the word 'women' is in there. It's up to trans people if they want something else tagged on the end and what that should be. Maybe you should go and ask them.

Stating that sex is a biological fact and cannot be changed is not transphobic.
Therefore you are incorrect.

@LangClegsInSpace

What other wording would you like? Women and people who menstruate?

I think most of us are happy as long as the word 'women' is in there. It's up to trans people if they want something else tagged on the end and what that should be. Maybe you should go and ask them.

Well, that’s irrelevant in relation to what you’d be happy with in relation to the overlap between trans rights and women’s rights. So what wording pleases you, just ‘women’ and nothing else?

So where is this middle ground where we can’t even lob them one tweet every so often saying ‘people who menstruate’ or similar?

This is just weird.

You still haven’t said what was weird here.

What other wording would you like? Women and people who menstruate?

As has been said on many threads, I want "women" on there and I am happy with other words being added to that.

The precise formula of additional wording should be developed with the trans community.

Yanbu. Good to see this thread in Aibu.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

What other wording would you like? Women and people who menstruate?

As has been said on many threads, I want "women" on there and I am happy with other words being added to that.

The precise formula of additional wording should be developed with the trans community.

So if they want ‘women and people who menstruate’ you’re happy with that?

Yep.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Yep.

Excellent! ‘Women and menstruators’?

But I will not meekly accept being demeaned in one. single. advertisement from any company and nor should I.

You want my money, you speak to me with respect.

Maybe ask those people what they would like to be referred to as. I can't imagine many transmen would like the term menstruators directed at them either.

Excellent! ‘Women and menstruators’?

Have you read my previous posts on this thread? Or are the people the wrong kind of trans, whose feelings don't count?

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Excellent! ‘Women and menstruators’?

Have you read my previous posts on this thread? Or are the people the wrong kind of trans, whose feelings don't count?

It doesn’t matter for the purpose of your happiness though - what inclusion are you happy with? Women and literally anything else?

@Erikrie

Maybe ask those people what they would like to be referred to as. I can't imagine many transmen would like the term menstruators directed at them either.

I’ve already said this upthread - it’s the level of compromise you’re prepared to give. So women and menstruators?

Why are you so determined to get the word menstruators used Pumper? Why are you so determined to reduce women and transmen to their biological functions when neither are happy with that?

Women and transmen would cover it if we have to add any clarification.

No reducing women to body parts or biological functions.

Furthermore, why are you putting the onus on women to find a middle ground? There was a compromise even though women were not consulted about it, we gave the proverbial inch and the proverbial mile was taken and we have ended up in this mess. Frankly, my desire for compromise went when the silencing, doxxing, death and rape threats started, the TRAs need to do a lot of work on their stance and attitudes and even then I would be loathe to trust them.

I have told you how I want to be referred to. I have also told you to canvass other people on their views.

This does not stop me noticing that you are carefully ignoring the viewpoints I have supplied to you of some members of the community. I cannot agree to wording on their behalf, and if I could I would not be highhandedly dismissing the opinions upthread.

Clearly you would...

I think most women are happy for transwomen, transmen, non binary and whatever to call themselves what they please. Menstruator, bleeder, penis person, prostate haver etc etc etc. It is just that the word “woman” is taken by adult human females.

@RedDogsBeg

Why are you so determined to get the word menstruators used Pumper? Why are you so determined to reduce women and transmen to their biological functions when neither are happy with that?

Women and transmen would cover it if we have to add any clarification.

No reducing women to body parts or biological functions.

Furthermore, why are you putting the onus on women to find a middle ground? There was a compromise even though women were not consulted about it, we gave the proverbial inch and the proverbial mile was taken and we have ended up in this mess. Frankly, my desire for compromise went when the silencing, doxxing, death and rape threats started, the TRAs need to do a lot of work on their stance and attitudes and even then I would be loathe to trust them.

I’m not - I’m trying to see where the middle ground is that stops outrage over trans inclusion in things like period products. Do you want to pretend they don’t exist? Or do you want some kind of acknowledgment of them? What are you happy with?

Woman and menstruaters isn't demeaning to women.
But it probably is demeaning to transmen.
Women and others who menstruate would be slightly less dehumanising.
But what you're trying to find out is impossible for us to say.
I mean it's like asking vegans if they're happy with the wording, vegans and carnists.
Vegan people have already indicated that the word vegan is fine for them. It's the other group represented in the sentence that need consulting.

How is it a compromise, pumper, when you are asking women to choose both words?

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

I have told you how I want to be referred to. I have also told you to canvass other people on their views.

This does not stop me noticing that you are carefully ignoring the viewpoints I have supplied to you of some members of the community. I cannot agree to wording on their behalf, and if I could I would not be highhandedly dismissing the opinions upthread.

Clearly you would...

I don’t understand why this is so difficult for you to answer. What level of inclusion are you personally happy with? Women and literally any other word? Just women? Women and a few specific words?

@MouseyTheVampireSlayer

Woman and menstruaters isn't demeaning to women. But it probably is demeaning to transmen. Women and others who menstruate would be slightly less dehumanising. But what you're trying to find out is impossible for us to say. I mean it's like asking vegans if they're happy with the wording, vegans and carnists. Vegan people have already indicated that the word vegan is fine for them. It's the other group represented in the sentence that need consulting.

I’m asking what wording you personally would be happy with.

@Datun

How is it a compromise, pumper, when you are asking women to choose both words?

I’m asking what wording you personally would be happy with.

Me personally? Just women.

@Datun

Me personally? Just women.

No mention of trans at all?

Trans is a gender identity, not a sex. Period products are based on sex.

According to my, legally protected, gender critical belief. 😁