Leaving London - is there a promised land?

[ilkleymoorbartat]

With the mass exodus from London at the moment, aibu to ask whether there is some promised land that people go when they have kids (whatever the location).

Ie, are those of us in London missing out on a life that is lovely and idyllic which if you're in the London bubble it's impossible to imagine?

Do we have Stockholm syndrome basically?!

Edinburgh, definitely.

awaketoosoon

Drives

Knaresbrough is nice but expensive, Yarm and Egglescliffe are lovely but not cheap

Glasgow or Edinburgh if in Scotland - loads of galleries, theatres, botanic gardens, restaurants, pubs and festivals.

Seems Londoners are buying up The Cotswolds and the villages on the Cotswold borders (more for your money). Stunning scenery, great pubs and easy access to theatres if you have a car.

Overall London is diverse but it's still very concentrated in certain areas & socio economic diversity is very borough dependent. Wandsworth has a very different diversity to Brent for example

True. It's diversely diverse.

Glasgow over Edinburgh every day of the week.

Edinburgh is lovely but a bit of theme park and crawling with tourists.

These sort of threads always seem to turn into a bun fight.
If we can accept their are people who Love living in London because it is their home and their life whilst others enjoy living in other parts of the country for the same reasons.
You dont have to detail why they should hate their choice as it is their choice.

@Tealightsandd I'm sure they did but every weekend? What I found then with night buses is there wasn't always one for the majority of the route & I didn't feel comfortable walking home so late. We generally slept over at a friends & yes the all-nighters were easier!

@Bythemillpond awh that is quite different. We didn't get a license or cars till our 20s & even then driving & parking in central london was £££

Also you can never drink

@Loudestcat14
"You are me! I want to retire from north London to either Soho or somewhere on the bank of the Thames".

Exactly what we've done, we're in a less celubrious part of Greater London right on the bank of the Thames. Our new neighbours are very friendly and a wide age range, though it is noticeable that many people moving in are at or near retirement so prices are relatively high. The area wouldn't appeal to the bankers and lawyers who I regard as a blot on the landscape of so many areas now, so hopefully we will keep our local shops and be free of Chelsea Tractors.

awaketoosoon
Dd got her licence ASAP. As for drinking, she isn’t really a drinker. Up to last year she didn’t drink. Then she tried a few things and decided she liked red wine and a particular cocktail but doesn’t really drink as whilst everyone around her seems to get a buzz from drinking she has found she doesn’t process alcohol in the same way and feels stone cold sober even after several drinks which sort of means unless she really fancies a nice cocktail for the taste she tends to stick with diet cola or lemonade and helping her friends to get home after a night out

Fair enough, I'm not a big drinker but would have 1-2 on a night out. If I'm driving I just don't drink anything.

When I was a teenager/student £15 was often my budget for a night out 😆.
Even now when DH & I go in for a meal/drink the CC & parking would be ££££ we just get the tube. The 24 hour job is a great option for the youth of today.

Interesting post Resl re. the global market pricing Londoners out of London.

I guess I did know that really, but I hadn't really thought of it that way.

@MargaretFraggle

Interesting post Resl re. the global market pricing Londoners out of London.

I guess I did know that really, but I hadn't really thought of it that way.

Yes, I really feel for the younger generations of displaced Londoners. New Labour were just as much to blame for not balancing policy as Conservative governments were and it has horrible consequences for some.

A lot of people seem to assume that all Londoners have fat wedges of easily acquired housing equity, but the young native Londoner renters moving out to rent or buy somewhere affordable have very little and they still get the same resentment aimed at them that the ex-Londoners with £££££s get.

Yes, I really feel for the younger generations of displaced Londoners. New Labour were just as much to blame for not balancing policy as Conservative governments were and it has horrible consequences for some.

The major issue (as it's being going on for several decades) is it's not just young Londoners.

It's affected huge numbers of lower income including many disabled older Londoners - people in their 40s, 50s, and beyond. And they are the very worst off. Partly because, unlike the young, they don't have time on their side - to hope for a change in policy and/or their personal circumstances/health.

But also because they are so often invisible. It's mainly the young affected in other parts of the country and people assume it's the same in London. If people aren't aware of their situation, of their (miserable) existence, then definitely nothing will ever be done to improve things. For example earlier taxpayer funded inflate the bubble schemes like Help to Buy give tax money to developers to put up shoddily constructed overpriced new builds were restricted to under 40s. Understandable to an extent because it's easier to get a mortgage under 40 (although the retirement age has risen) but no alternative help was given to the unfortunate homeless or insecurely/poorly housed over 40s.

the young native Londoner renters moving out to rent or buy somewhere affordable have very little and they still get the same resentment aimed at them that the ex-Londoners with £££££s get.

Adding insult to injury is that many of the 'Londoners' with £££££ are not Londoners, but people from across the UK who moved to London to take advantage of it before moving on elsewhere when they've had their fill.

Worst off than young London born Londoners are the older ones. It's easier to adapt to change in your youth, and often easier to fit in - meeting new people through work, university, new partners.

It's a time of life before you settle - when it's not uncommon to move around to new places.

Pity the older and disabled Londoners. They're they ones who have really suffered from governments since Blair 'investing' in London.

Tealightsandd I'm sure they did but every weekend? What I found then with night buses is there wasn't always one for the majority of the route & I didn't feel comfortable walking home so late. We generally slept over at a friends & yes the all-nighters were easier!

Tbf a lot stuck to all night clubs or went on to all night cafes like the Italian one in Soho or semi/not legal all night bars to wait for the first tube. Sometimes just hanging out together outside stations until they opened in the early morning.

But yes several friends did regularly get night buses home from central to zones 5 and 6. I think they had the attitude of the invincibility of youth, partly fuelled by alcohol. It was very mixed. People regularly stayed over with each other or shared cabs home (each dropped off in turn) so it probably wasn't often that any went all the way home to the outer zones on their own.

This was the 80s and 90s though. Things might have changed/people got more cautious nowadays. Although I thought uber made things easier now anyway. It used to be more difficult to find a cab sometimes, especially one willing to go further out, and more expensive.

@Tealightsandd

Yes, I really feel for the younger generations of displaced Londoners. New Labour were just as much to blame for not balancing policy as Conservative governments were and it has horrible consequences for some.

The major issue (as it's being going on for several decades) is it's not just young Londoners.

It's affected huge numbers of lower income including many disabled older Londoners - people in their 40s, 50s, and beyond. And they are the very worst off. Partly because, unlike the young, they don't have time on their side - to hope for a change in policy and/or their personal circumstances/health.

But also because they are so often invisible. It's mainly the young affected in other parts of the country and people assume it's the same in London. If people aren't aware of their situation, of their (miserable) existence, then definitely nothing will ever be done to improve things. For example earlier taxpayer funded inflate the bubble schemes like Help to Buy give tax money to developers to put up shoddily constructed overpriced new builds were restricted to under 40s. Understandable to an extent because it's easier to get a mortgage under 40 (although the retirement age has risen) but no alternative help was given to the unfortunate homeless or insecurely/poorly housed over 40s.

the young native Londoner renters moving out to rent or buy somewhere affordable have very little and they still get the same resentment aimed at them that the ex-Londoners with £££££s get.

Adding insult to injury is that many of the 'Londoners' with £££££ are not Londoners, but people from across the UK who moved to London to take advantage of it before moving on elsewhere when they've had their fill.

Worst off than young London born Londoners are the older ones. It's easier to adapt to change in your youth, and often easier to fit in - meeting new people through work, university, new partners.

It's a time of life before you settle - when it's not uncommon to move around to new places.

Pity the older and disabled Londoners. They're they ones who have really suffered from governments since Blair 'investing' in London.

Yes I know @Tealightsandd I was trying to address just the one aspect because I think my older children and slightly older (nineties babies, in their twenties now) are being quicker to cotton on and just leave and settle elsewhere than the people of my age who struggled to buy for a long while (those of us without gifted deposits), with mixed success.

You’re right, though. There are of course multiple demographic angles to it.

I’m speaking as a Londoner who bought late myself and very nearly not at all. One set of my grandparents were solidly manual working class and it boggles my brains how anyone in their jobs or circumstances would survive in London now. In fact that whole side of the family did well, and all were owner occupiers in London sooner or later, despite always being in skilled manual trades. I know some of my second cousins are having a rough time.

The other side of the family were more middle class and slightly ahead the curve.

What’s scary is how small differences a generation or two ago have been hugely magnified by housing luck. I feel like I’m roughly in the median spot of it all, age wise, class wise, salary wise, just observing the variations.

It pisses me off hugely that oligarchs and bankers were prioritised to such an extent and that massive swathes of London have been left without hope. It’s not a real, functioning city any more because of the economics of it all. I can’t think about it too long because it makes me angry.

Oh and I can confirm we did the Nightbus thing from central home to zones 4&5 in the mid nineties @Tealightsandd although we did have one for end who wasn’t “allowed” to use them officially so she did but she stayed over with one of us and details were blurred I think. Maybe the idea that they were incredibly dangerous grew? In fact, maybe they did genuinely get more dangerous? They used to be so good humoured when we used them (the only London transport people would sometimes chat on, slightly sozzled) but later I remember some reported muggings and so on being reported on them.

awaketoosoon

We always use sites like Just Park etc
We parked in a fancy hotels underground car park for 4 days recently for £10.50 per day
We added up for 4 of us to get the tube even for the shortish journey there and back each day would have cost quite a bit more and we had the convenience of the car after 12 hours at work.

What’s scary is how small differences a generation or two ago have been hugely magnified by housing luck. I feel like I’m roughly in the median spot of it all, age wise, class wise, salary wise, just observing the variations.

It is scary isn't it. Such a huge (and damaging) change in so short period of time.

Tony Blair wanted to make London into a playground for the young, healthy, and rich. His successors continued down the same path.

It pisses me off hugely that oligarchs and bankers were prioritised to such an extent and that massive swathes of London have been left without hope. It’s not a real, functioning city any more because of the economics of it all. I can’t think about it too long because it makes me angry.

I agree. It's wrong on so many levels. And all the people who resent London's 'investment' don't realise this is the unenviable reality of it.

Disabled Londoners have been particularly hard hit. Shut out of stable housing in London but, unlike their peers, less easily able to leave for pastures new.

I feel sorry for the young too.

I have a feeling the planned 'levelling up' particularly the so called Northern Powerhouse will simply bring the same problems and misery to other parts of the country. It's already started happening with house prices around Manchester.

I think you're right about the night buses. Perhaps they're more dangerous nowadays? It was always a really friendly vibe back in the day. Never felt unsafe. I think things might've changed. What a shame.

I defo got the nightbus in the 90s but I grew up in a then bit dodgy part of z2 so wouldn't be walking through certain areas in the early hours.

I bought with help with parents but I have friends/colleagues in their 40s/50s in very normal jobs who can buy 1m houses simply because the have a ton of equity. And then you have others who are completely priced out

We looked at a house a few yrs ago that needed a ton of work but had huge potential. It was on for 800k but overpriced. We could have just about afforded it by stretching ourselves completely but I was pregnant & it was completely out of catchment for any school etc. We didn't go for it & a developer got it for 720k. Not even 3 yrs later the prices & area went crazy. It appeared on the market again with the kitchen extension, loft done etc & sold for just under 1.7m. Crazy

Scotland. Hands down the best choice I ever made was to move here (not from London though). My mortgage is £520 and out of my window I can see fields, trees, open sky, deer, birds etc. I can be in Edinburgh or Glasgow in an hour and a few of the smaller regional towns within 15 minutes. Beaches and mountains are also within short driving distance. Local schools are good and lots to do for kids. The people are friendly and I've found a good group of friends. Weather is nowhere near as bad as people make out.
Of course there are problems here too but on the whole I can't imagine living elsewhere in the Uk now.

Just don't move to greater Manchester, according to another thread, they hate londoners up there

@Macncheeseballs

Just don't move to greater Manchester, according to another thread, they hate londoners up there

I know. Can you believe that thread?!