Child hits parent, parent rewards the behaviour. Shit parenting no?

[Gingersundodger]

NC for this as I do most things that could be identifying if linked to precious posts.

I'm a mother of 2, step mother of 2.

I've just come off the phone with DH who was picking up DSC from school.

He rang me to say he was en route back but held up as he had an incident with DSC2, age 8.5

He told them he'd get them both a slush from the shop near school but when they got there the machine was out of order. DSC2 lost his shit, threw his bag and sun glasses across the road and sat on the pavement shouting at DH. The kick off continued and DSC lashed out at DH hitting and pinching him.

After relaying all of this to me DH says "It's ok now, I got him a slush from somewhere else so he's alright"

Am I being unreasonable to take issue with him for rewarding such behaviour? Not least because he has an example to set to our children aswell, DH that is.

What a piss poor example of parenting.

It is mine because it is usually a whole approach to parenting that sees he child as their adversary, that seeks revenge and thinks they will a learn a lesson from that revenge but it doesntvaddress the heart of the matter and so the cycle continues. I don't think schools have it right at all though and IME they are all about the punitive at secondary level in particular.

I'm not suggesting you can't say, 'no', it's how often you say it and whether you always accompany it with punitive measures. It just lacks imagination and IME it is an antiquated way of dealing with problematic behaviour. Children are allowed strong emotions just like adults.

I have to ask.
There is no drip feed here that the child is autistic, had an episode, and then used appropriate techniques to get it under control?

Because if there is, then moving on and finding a slush would be acceptable.
This with bells on.

I find this odd. If you reward an autistic child for this sort of behaviour how will they ever grow up to understand how they should behave in society? Why just because they are autistic should hitting a parent result in a reward?

Sulky and angry behaviour, and lashing out at a parent, or anyone really, has to be dealt with quickly, and not just taking away a blasted gadget or something. and not getting a slushy either.. Older children need a very strict talking to about bad behaviour like this, and to be made aware that they can't act like this when they can't get everything they want.

@gottakeeponmovin

I have to ask. There is no drip feed here that the child is autistic, had an episode, and then used appropriate techniques to get it under control?

Because if there is, then moving on and finding a slush would be acceptable.
This with bells on.

I find this odd. If you reward an autistic child for this sort of behaviour how will they ever grow up to understand how they should behave in society? Why just because they are autistic should hitting a parent result in a reward?

Because during a meltdown children have very little if any rational thought or control. Meltdowns and what happens during them are not a choice.

Trying to regulate themselves before the incident (even if it didn't work) or behaving appropriately after coming out of it and being reflective is to be encouraged, and yes even rewarded if appropriate.

8.5 years old. !!! I thought you were going to say 3. !! I would be livid if anyone of mind hit me. If they did they would certainly not go unpunished. He is making a rod for his own back. The behavior will get work. The issue with the DC needs addressing now before he is a teen and using violence. If my DH didnt step up. I would. He is in your home and you have younger children. He could hurt them. When he comes in air him down and talk to him.

Wow, I remember that other thread of yours. Sadly this is only going to get worse and I'd be worried about DH's crap parenting as your children get older.

@Goldenbear

It is mine because it is usually a whole approach to parenting that sees he child as their adversary, that seeks revenge and thinks they will a learn a lesson from that revenge but it doesntvaddress the heart of the matter and so the cycle continues. I don't think schools have it right at all though and IME they are all about the punitive at secondary level in particular.

I suggest you alter your social circles if most of the parenting you see is of this nature.

I have literally never seen any parent I know use revenge with their children. I have seen them say no as a consequence of bad behaviour though.

I remember your posts OP, and I think it’s always your DH’s fault for sweeping things under the carpet to stop DSS from getting ‘distressed’.
It’s poor, soft Disney Dadding and it would be over my dead body that any of my kids would get a slushy from me after hitting and punching me.
If he’s 8 I would be sending him to his room to think about his outburst, and telling him to apologise when he’s ready.

It's a classic case of the man being a Disney dad, with a big dose of NRP guilt thrown in for good measure.

You get this behaviour from some toddlers, but from an 8.5 year old! That is really too much. This child is lacking of any ability to cope with frustration/ disappointment!
Is this a regular thing or just a one off?
If the father got the slush in another shop to calm his son down, and now will speak to him and try to help him to develop and grow a bit on this department, then I would not judge him, to be honest. I know by own experience that trying to parent an overexcited child is not always the way forward. Sometimes you have to let them come back to their calm normal selfs, then have a chat.
Have the parents tried anything with him? Talking, trying to make him think about what he does. Writing down how he felt, and then try to imagine he is the father, and he has to deal with this can help a lot. Writing it down is really good, as you have more time to reflect than talking about it.
I do not think it is a case of discipline, but of personal growth, and of respect to his father. Your DH is not a punch bag to be hit just because a machine in someone else's shop is not working!

JackieTheFart, what made you think my observations about punitive measures were from my social circles.

I witness the endless, 'no's', the public dressing downs in all sorts of contexts, it just seems to serve to humiliate and can 'appear' vengeful. I think it is frankly embarrassing to make an exhibition of yourself, giving a child a loud dressing down and how does it model good behaviour? Quite apart from using food as a carrot and stick approach which 'yes', I wholly disagree with. It is nonsense and irrational to think the reactive, fire fighting parental technique- I.e throwing a 'no slushy no' in to a volatile and highly strung situation doesn't do anything except make the parent feel like they have taken action. What is the problem here as there obviously is one. How does that assertion of power find the answer.

It is all very well saying they are 8.5 but they are 8 and yes, 8 year olds can get extremely upset about stuff, this child obviously is upset, why don't they ask the child why they are doing these things.

It sounds to me from what the OP has told us, that the child in question, is used to getting his own way, and spits his dummy out the pram if he doesn't get it. I agree with the OP that his father's reaction was a stupid one, maybe, rather than going to another shop, he should have given him a bottle of water to cool down with, and then explained why that sort of behaviour isn't acceptable, but to reward his behaviour, just makes life more difficult for everyone, the child included, as he's learned nothing from it. As for those that are looking for other reasons behind his melt down, as I said at the beginning, it seems clear to me that he's just being spoilt, perhaps his Mum is giving in to him because his Dad is not around full time anymore, and then Dad is giving in because he feels guilty.

It happens often.

DH says (only after I asked) that he spoke to him after he calmed down and explained why he shouldn't be acting like that, I'm not buying it though. I doubt he did.

He said he did tell his ex about it when he dropped them home after tea and her response was "welcome to my world" so it's something she deals with regularly too.

I don't get involved as far as she's concerned but there has clearly been no discussion between them about how to handle/manage the behaviour. I asked him how she deals with it and he said he doesn't know

Isn't that sad for him though, how long did he have his Dad full time. Surely you can empathise with that even though parents splitting up is unavoidable, it doesn't change the child's perception. Maybe he's jealous. I don't think it is that the child is just spoilt. You have got to find the reason behind this behaviour whatver that is.

@Goldenbear

Isn't that sad for him though, how long did he have his Dad full time. Surely you can empathise with that even though parents splitting up is unavoidable, it doesn't change the child's perception. Maybe he's jealous. I don't think it is that the child is just spoilt. You have got to find the reason behind this behaviour whatver that is.

Of course I can empathise with him and have done, to my detriment and that of my own DC sometimes.

As I said in a previous post it's a DH issue and he's failing him, and by extension ours, with his parenting or lack of.

Parents need to sit down with him for long long convos on how he feels when he does this, how to stop it before it starts, and how to respect others.
And if they cannot manage it between them, then they need external help.
This is a big issue, I think far beyond being spoiled. Many kids are spoiled rotten, yet they do not act like this. In this example, he did not act like this to bend his father's will. The father was agreeable to give him the treat. It was an external factor, but the child could not cope with that simple set back. And if it a regular occurrence, it sounds like a behavoral development issue, not just a naughty kid.

In this example, he did not act like this to bend his father's will. The father was agreeable to give him the treat. It was an external factor, but the child could not cope with that simple set back

Yes very good point. This was not a spoiled brat being told no and having a tantrum thinking that will get him what he wants. This was a reaction to the machine being broken. He probably had no idea his dad could get him a slushy elsewhere (I’m guessing??) so he wasn’t having a tantrum deliberately to try to get what he wanted. He was having one, I would guess, because he is not capable of regulating his reaction to disappointment.

@Gingersundodger as the mother of a 6yo girl who was punched in the head by a boy in her class because she told him to hold on a minute while she finished with HER glue stick he wanted, I can tell you I was ready to rip the fucking little shits head off. I made it clear he was not allowed anywhere near my dd again, 95% of the class is girls, once the other parents found out what had happened every one of them demanded he be kept away from their DDs too.

Your DH needs to sort his suit out before his son becomes that child in the class no one wants their kids around and more importantly before he hurts someone else.

@Goldenbear

It is all very well saying they are 8.5 but they are 8 and yes, 8 year olds can get extremely upset about stuff, this child obviously is upset, why don't they ask the child why they are doing these things.

The child was upset because the slushy machine was broken. That's why he hit and pinched his dad, threw his bag in the road and sat on the pavement. You say it's embarrassing for people to publically tell their children 'no'. I completely disagree. Why do you not think it would be embarrassing to try to enter in to a long and complex conversation with the child, encouraging them to delve into the depths of their emotions and divulge their deepest feelings, in public? Do you really think trying to talk to a child who is angry to the point of violence is going to want to have a chat with you about it? That wouldn't be embarrassing for the child? You appear to have very rigid views of parenting. Where yours is the only right way and you harshly judge any other way. Where you would have seen your child publically launch their bag into the road, hit you had pinch you because the slushy machine was broken, your response to this would be to weakly plead with your child to tell you how they feel whilst promising to get them a slushy from somewhere else.

The thing is you are raising adults not children. If this goes on when hes an adult he would react to disappointment with violence. Imagine if all adults hit each other !

If my DS hit me he would have sanctions. He would go without his treat whilst the others had. It is never ok to hit particularly your elders. It sounds like storing trouble for the future.

@Goldenbear

The worst behaved children I know all have strict parents that are very good at saying, 'no' but not very good at trying to understand how to do things better.

That is definitely not my experience either. Too strict is crushing and damaging but the parenting you describe can also be damaging; children need clear boundaries to feel safe and learn to regulate. The worst behaved children I know have either negligent parents, I don't know any negligent parents so that's based on rare snap judgements out and about, or parents who are engaged but too lenient and try to explain and excuse everything. Their children know there are very few consequences and behave accordingly. Mum and dad will do the mental gymnastics involved in deciding the behaviour was a result of something the child has no culpability for and/or that any punishment would be counterproductive. Tilly would NEVER be unkind, she just wants everyone to be happy after all. Even if naughty mummy should have realised that a snack before visiting the park might have prevented Tilly's sugar level dropping and making her irritable, if Tilly is a NT child beyond toddler years, Tilly should be able to regulate her response to hunger or diffuse rattiness so that she merely whinges or sulks rather than punching someone.

Waspsarearesholes, that's quite a sensationalist spin you've put on my posts there.

I have not said you shouldn't or can't say, 'no', how ridiculous but I kind of think you know that you're twisting things there to fit in with your narrative. Equally, when did I say have a long drawn out conversation about it at the point of the upset. What I am actually suggesting is that I think the OP wasn't there so the drama over the bag etc. may not have been the scene you suggest it is. Yes, some children hit on occasion still at 8 especially their parent who they feel safe about letting out their frustration on. It is not the same as a child in his class. It is not right to hit your parents but it certainly doesn't mean he's destined for a life of crime- it is so far fetched and not helpful to the OP as it is reinforcing notions of the child being almost unhelpable.

I do not think it is right or appropriate to get in to a loud exchange with your child over his behaviour. That is embarrassing, irrational and doesn't work!! There is no weakness in behaving like an adult, ignoring it and then when things have calmed to provide the slushy as an adult does not use food as a reward IMO! I think it is weak when an adult loses grip of their emotions and starts having a slanging match with their child to the embarrassment of themselves and everyone around them. It is not showing how to regulate your emotions, the very thing you surely want to do in this scenario! You see parents implement this kind of discipline all the time in public and it does not look good, does not sound good and most importantly is ineffective!

It's always 'Tillys' or 'Tarquins' on here that are portrayed as the stereotypical middle class, entitled brat. I think it sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulder about parental techniques that they feel are woolly or alternative and are reluctant to countenance the of these techniques sometimes actually working.