Another teenager dead right now - how do we get a grip on gangs?

[NorthNineteen]

Name changed. A teenager was killed (shooting) close to where I live. It happened about an hour ago, there are loads of police, an air ambulance came. It's so awful, I don't know many details but what can be done to protect children? Clearly the current system is broken. It's so heartbreaking to think someone has lost their child today.

I agree re social media etc. I grew up in extreme poverty but this was in the 70s where I wasn’t bombarded with images of the wealthy splashing the cash. There also wasn’t any particular “stuff” that people aspired to own. It just wasn’t available. The odd fashion item maybe but not much.

If you grow up or live outside of “society” in any way, it’s very hard to become part of it again. I was a single mum for most of my DCs life and I know we’re looked down on. The only single mums that get any “respect” are those who earn well, buy their own home etc. If you live in SH or rely on benefits at any stage you’re seen as “lower” than others. I see this attitude on MN over and over. As a child, if you can see society look down on your parent(s) then you might seek respect in other ways and you won’t give a toss about being a good citizen. I’m outwardly respectable now, good job, both my DC got degrees. But I still don’t really feel part of “society” whatever that means. I look after my own and that’s it.

As a society we can’t treat parents like trash and then wonder why kids join gangs. It may not be true in every case, but it’s a part of it. Poverty by itself is one thing, but it’s the attitude of everyone else towards “the poor” that is also a factor.

I live in the countryside in what would be classed as a nice village and the I can assure you the amount of dealing that goes on is absolutely rife and it’s from kids that live in large detached houses so you can’t generalise that it’s all kids from tower blocks and living in poverty.

Teenagers armed with knifes is a vicious cycle, some carry with the intention to hurt others carry for protection against the ones set out for trouble.
There has 5/6 deaths from stabbing gangs this year in Dublin, don't counting the daily vicious assaults.
They get about on bikes, one recently slashed a woman's throat as she walked home from work he cycled by with a knife, she died.

Well it’s male violence yet again, and as soon as you name the problem, you’ll get an army along to tell you Not All Men and girls are just as bad. So we can’t talk about it.

Grime, drill, rap music, watch any of their videos, read the lyrics where they actually glamourise drugs, designer clothes and knives. Young kids look to these people as role models.

As someone else also said, social media promoting a certain lifestyle.

@AmIPeriOrAreYouJustAnnoying

It hardly gets mentioned on the national news when it happens in London either. So so gut wrenchingly sad 🥲

Unless it’s a middle class class white female the masses don’t seem to be interested. It’s tragic.

@SandysMam

I think if the middle classes who think nothing of a line or two on a night out, would all stop their somethings for the weekend, that would help. I know so many who think this is nothing to do with them, who have no idea how much it really has.

Exactly. Who do you think is pouring money into the system and fuelling demand for drug running, county lines etc.

Unless it’s a middle class class white female the masses don’t seem to be interested. It’s tragic.

The masses are hardly even interested in that either. So many women are murdered across the world daily and its basically collateral damage to the patriarchy.

I grew up in extreme poverty but this was in the 70s where I wasn’t bombarded with images of the wealthy splashing the cash. There also wasn’t any particular “stuff” that people aspired to own. It just wasn’t available. The odd fashion item maybe but not much.

I was listening to the Renegades podcast with Obama and they said the same. They said it changed in the 80's with materialism. Suddenly living within your means wasn't enough and everyone had to have all these material goods.

@Naunet

Well it’s male violence yet again, and as soon as you name the problem, you’ll get an army along to tell you Not All Men and girls are just as bad. So we can’t talk about it.

I think the more uncomfortable truth is it's often black on black. Poverty and family breakdown is often behind it.

I think the more uncomfortable truth is it's often black on black.
Not necessarily it is happening with young men everywhere.
The gangs around here at 90% white boys, yes there is gangs of black boys however it is predominantly wc teenagers who make up numbers.
Ireland is years behind the UK with immigration.
I think it has more diversity from the 90's.

@vegas888

Grime, drill, rap music, watch any of their videos, read the lyrics where they actually glamourise drugs, designer clothes and knives. Young kids look to these people as role models. As someone else also said, social media promoting a certain lifestyle.

Here we go...

@EmeraldShamrock

I think the more uncomfortable truth is it's often black on black. Not necessarily it is happening with young men everywhere. The gangs around here at 90% white boys, yes there is gangs of black boys however it is predominantly wc teenagers who make up numbers. Ireland is years behind the UK with immigration. I think it has more diversity from the 90's.

Yeah, it's happening everywhere because the drug trade is everywhere and that will always bring violence.

London is in a league of its own in terms of the prevalence of violent knife crime and the murder rate.

London is in a league of its own in terms of the prevalence of violent knife crime and the murder rate.
It truly is.
I read a heartbreaking story of a young doctor stabbed to death for his phone days after his parents died of covid in London.
What can be done to control it?

I see now why private schools are important in London.

Unless it’s a middle class class white female the masses don’t seem to be interested. It’s tragic

🤨 that’s really fucking offensive, especially when rape convictions are at an all time low.

I think the more uncomfortable truth is it's often black on black. Poverty and family breakdown is often behind it

So black girls are murdering at the same rate as black boys? Nope. It’s just part of the wider scale of male violence in my opinion.

Legalise drugs. Tax them. Spend the tax revenues on education, youth and health services.

It would make a huge difference and everyone knows the 'war on drugs' was lost in the 1980s even if we can't admit it to ourselves despite the very clear evidence. Prohibition never works.

There are too many children brought up without the role model of a father being present.

Many mothers do a great job of single parenting, but others cannot manage it while also working for a living.

'Grime, drill, rap music, watch any of their videos, read the lyrics where they actually glamourise drugs, designer clothes and knives. Young kids look to these people as role models.'

This!

Grime and rap artists need to take a bit of responsibility for the influence of their misogynistic, violent crap.

There's a lot of negative influences. E.g Snapchat - knives and drugs readily available, Definitely a lot happens on social media to stir up trouble.
I worry about the summer holidays. Always a spike in incidents.

@JaniieJones

'Grime, drill, rap music, watch any of their videos, read the lyrics where they actually glamourise drugs, designer clothes and knives. Young kids look to these people as role models.'

This!

Grime and rap artists need to take a bit of responsibility for the influence of their misogynistic, violent crap.

I've said this in another thread and no one agreed. Music is a huge influence

I'm afraid this all stems from very early parenting. There will be exceptions of course but on the whole, children from loving secure homes, with reasonable boundaries, even poor ones, are not vulnerable to grooming by gangs, regardless of what music they're listening to.

We need to find a way to support struggling families and in my controversial view, move attitudes away from absent fathers being normal.

I think we do have to address some difficult questions. However people are so worried about being called racist or whatever that this doesn't happen.

Having worked in London secondary schools I agree black on black gang violence is very much more likely. Not necessarily the case outside of London I can imagine.

We seriously need to be looking at the causes of this and starting from a young age. Schools see it but whilst trying to help often get told they are singling out a group etc. Therefore they end up with their hands tied. Open honest dialogue is needed to help these kids not adults shouting nonsense.

I also think people are kidding themselves about drug legalisation. Gangs that are in it to make money with just find other ways to make big money. Girls are already taken into gangs and then pimped out for example.

One thing that does need to happen though is middle class and wealthy people need to stop thinking their recreational drug use isn't harming anyone. They are indirectly very much hurting vulnerable young people. They need to be honest with themselves.

Mereum I have the utmost admiration for single mums especially those who are up against it, you deserve huge respect.

I think sport, sport, sport.
If there was football training clubs everywhere, competition at weekends between them, inclusive so different level teams played those on the same level.
Maybe some clubs could encourage this on a much bigger scale than at present.
Encourages team work, exercise improves mood, no one thinks teh guy with the biggest knife is kingpin, it's the guy who scored/saved the vital goal.