Another teenager dead right now - how do we get a grip on gangs?

[NorthNineteen]

Name changed. A teenager was killed (shooting) close to where I live. It happened about an hour ago, there are loads of police, an air ambulance came. It's so awful, I don't know many details but what can be done to protect children? Clearly the current system is broken. It's so heartbreaking to think someone has lost their child today.

@stressbandit

I ended up involved in a gang for me it was easy to see how it happened. I was neglected at home I was constantly looking for love or attention and I found it in the older boys of my estate. I didn't do anything bad but I felt protected, safe, appreciated loved respected and wanted all emotions I never felt at home growing up. Luckily I met someone quite young and broke off from those guys and ended up settling down, growing up and actually doing something good with my life, but it was so easy to fall into. We had youth clubs we would go to them it was fun then they closed so we'd hang around outside etc there wasn't anything else to do at that time. This is around when things really started to kick off in London I think it would of been around 2005? 2008?. Majority of those guys are in prison now some died in there 20s from stabbings a few died from heart attacks in there 20s.

It's really sad so many of those boys started off as friendly lovely people who'd carry peoples shopping home and be the most sweetest child during school too.
I don't know how we all fell into it except for me I knew why I was there. I'm not sure for them.

Thank you for sharing this. It's the experience of so many young people I've met but you were resilient/resourceful/lucky to not be drawn deep. I meet 13-17 'gang' boys who are ridiculously respectful and polite towards me. They aren't the boys I see in their referral notes. I work with those manners and respect and hopefully build positive relationships. Do I make a difference? I've no idea as once they leave my service I rarely hear about them again.

Good post @expogal

I grew up in a then rough part of London but there seemed to be more social mobility then. I went to pretty good scales because catchments weren't so small & there was quite a mix. The same primary I went to now has pretty much only 1 demographic that can get a place.

@dorangme

And yet plenty of posters on MN think there is nothing wrong with taking drugs.

Presumably if drugs were made legal then they would be considered the same as alcohol. I’m on the fence about it. Yes I agree legalising drugs would stop a lot of crime but in America when opiates were handed out very readily (I think the pharma company Sacklers manufactured a strong opiate and a medical professor said only 1% of patients would become addicted) loads of people became addicts. It’s a major problem there and I can’t see how it wouldn’t happen here too.

schools not scales

@Andante57 I'm also unsure re the legalise drugs argument however in the current system using drugs isn't ethical, particularly when so many users turn the other cheek & blame the parents.

[quote dorangme]@Andante57 I'm also unsure re the legalise drugs argument however in the current system using drugs isn't ethical, particularly when so many users turn the other cheek & blame the parents. [/quote]
Yes.
Also if drugs were legal would there be a legal limit under which one could drive, like with alcohol?
Also would dealers undercut legal outlets with cheaper drugs - I’m sure there used to be massive cigarette smuggling even though they were legally available in shops.

However if legalising drugs removed much of gang violence and criminality then that would be very positive.

I'm of the legalise drugs, opinion.
People will always take drugs. We can't stop that but we can stop some of the associated crime.

The police officer I spoke to said he thinks materialism is actually the issue. He said all it takes is one child in a school turns up with a flashy pair trainers and says I can introduce you to my mate and then you can get some too and suddenly vulnerable people get sucked into this cycle.

@Buttermaflooby

Literally put the fear of God back into them! Humanism teaches them that we're all here by accident and we're all going back to nothing when we die. Just a random collection of atoms. There are no real consequences to face in this life and nothing waiting after so who cares what we do!

It does religion no favours when it's adherents assume that the only way anyone can derive meaning from life or strive to do good is if they're rewarded with an eternal paradise from the big man in the sky. The majority of atheists or agnostics (which I assume is what you meant with humanists, which is a separate movement in itself) manage to be broadly

It's pointless preaching religion at disaffected teenagers when you've no real back up plan- assuming you're successful in the first place- for what happens when they notice any of the massive gaping holes in the religious theories they're supposedly now basing their lives around.

The ignorance and white privilege of this thread STINKS.

*manage to be broadly good humans in their own right without the threat of eternal damnation. They do it because they value other human beings, even if they are collections of atoms.

The police officer I spoke to said he thinks materialism is actually the issue. He said all it takes is one child in a school turns up with a flashy pair trainers and says I can introduce you to my mate and then you can get some too and suddenly vulnerable people get sucked into this cycle.

Well our society is incredibly materialistic & social media encourages it. I often commented on threads on here about fb bragging & some people utterly believe in "post what you like", "don't like don't look". But it doesn't exist in a vacuum & I don't think it's healthy for society.

@29Cam2020 despite everyone believing that families on benefits are taking in more than the average worker this is really not the case. I work with lots of single parents who do not receive a penny from the absent parent and benefits cuts have really hit hard. The benefit system is now so complex and punitive any change in circumstances suspends all payments and arrears in housing etc just build up. Your circumstances change, payments stop for several weeks whilst the new claim is processed. If I did not get payed as expected on time each month, my bills would not be met.

It is just not financial poverty, and that is soul destroying. Trying to break the cycle of lack of access to good housing, education and aspiration. Loads of children do not value education and that is complex. They do well in primary with loads of pastoral support. Head to secondary and not being in the proper uniform, no smart phone, having parents who struggle to support you - bright kids but it is far easier to get singled out as a trouble maker than the kid whose home life is shite.

So lack of proper parenting?

This is just too sad. This is not some dark corner of dodgy London but is literally on the doorstep of one of London's nicest High streets. Many kids in that area go to private schools and the state schools are very good. If the kids end up in gangs living around there, they will anywhere.
So, so sad.

I do think social media influencers have a lot to answer for often selling an aspirational lifestyle that is entirely false.

The ignorance and white privilege of this thread STINKS..

So none if this applies to white males who comit violent crime, run drugs or join gangs, then? Funnily enough the themes are clearly recognisable, regardless if race. But you crack on with your own agenda.

This is just too sad. This is not some dark corner of dodgy London but is literally on the doorstep of one of London's nicest High streets. Many kids in that area go to private schools and the state schools are very good. If the kids end up in gangs living around there, they will anywhere.

I don't think it's any sadder that it's a nice area with good schools?

@Hellocatshome

There's no youth clubs left. I cant pretend to know the answer but youth clubs alone are not the answer. The children involved in gangs would not be the ones turning up at youth clubs. There are plenty of clubs etc for young people to join if they wanted to, they dont want to.

That’s just what Boris said to console himself when he closed them down or reduce funding. The truth is that the type of kids who fall into gangs ARE the type of kids who go to free youth clubs. They are the type to respond to positive role models. But we need to reach out to them at a much younger age and they need youth clubs for a much longer period before / after school & during holidays too. These are also the same kids who live in such poverty that just the ability to buy their fav drinks / food regularly will often tempt them into gang life.

No of course not @dorangme

Some people reading this thread are portraying the area as some type of slum which is blatantly not true. Others here and on Twitter are saying "It's London - it is lost". This is missing my point which is that it can happen on any urban street in the country: yours, mine, this one. It can happen anywhere.

@Cam2020

The ignorance and white privilege of this thread STINKS..

So none if this applies to white males who comit violent crime, run drugs or join gangs, then? Funnily enough the themes are clearly recognisable, regardless if race. But you crack on with your own agenda.

The reasons for joining gangs and the family set up tend to be different for white kids. It’s been known for a while that BAME kids where both parents are working tend to fall into gangs. These kids are intelligent, often A Grade students before they fall into gangs, and in some cases may even go to Uni in a related subject. For example many South Asian drug dealers study business / pharmaceutics / chemistry at university. White kids often only fall into gangs when both parents aren’t working or where they have experience of drugs at home.

10 year jail sentence for carrying a knife
Stop glamourising the drug, knife, designer clothes culture in music videos and lyrics
Sort out the massive drug problem we have. Kids can make huge sums of money selling drugs and some are prepared to do that rather than flip burgers for £3-£4/hour.

@Cam2020

The ignorance and white privilege of this thread STINKS..

So none if this applies to white males who comit violent crime, run drugs or join gangs, then? Funnily enough the themes are clearly recognisable, regardless if race. But you crack on with your own agenda.

Absolutely spot on with that comment!

@vegas888

10 year jail sentence for carrying a knife Stop glamourising the drug, knife, designer clothes culture in music videos and lyrics Sort out the massive drug problem we have. Kids can make huge sums of money selling drugs and some are prepared to do that rather than flip burgers for £3-£4/hour.

Most BAME people who carry a knife are female and it’s usually given to them for their protection by well meaning relatives; and are never used. Outsiders don’t tend to know this. So any jail sentence would end up impacting the innocent kids as they are most likely to get caught.

I actually think if we made child maintenance mandatory in this country, forcing absentee parents to pay for their children (and have it come out of benefits / accrue as real debt that could impact mortgages or the right to leave the country), that might lift many kids out of poverty.

Can’t see gang members going along to youth clubs….even if there were any!

@legoagogogo Thank you and you probably do I used to go to one of these services for (something that wasn't actually my fault but wrong place and wrong time and all that!) but I met some amazing people who actually made me want to contribute to society and probably helped me mature my emotions more, and move on with my life. I had no stability at all but these workers really helped because I felt like they understood what I was experiencing.
They used to take me on days out and stuff and put me in touch with other programmes that I had an interest in and what not. It must be really hard to do as a job I know myself I wouldn't be able to do it.