Another teenager dead right now - how do we get a grip on gangs?

[NorthNineteen]

Name changed. A teenager was killed (shooting) close to where I live. It happened about an hour ago, there are loads of police, an air ambulance came. It's so awful, I don't know many details but what can be done to protect children? Clearly the current system is broken. It's so heartbreaking to think someone has lost their child today.

@29Cam2020 despite everyone believing that families on benefits are taking in more than the average worker this is really not the case. I work with lots of single parents who do not receive a penny from the absent parent and benefits cuts have really hit hard. The benefit system is now so complex and punitive any change in circumstances suspends all payments and arrears in housing etc just build up. Your circumstances change, payments stop for several weeks whilst the new claim is processed. If I did not get payed as expected on time each month, my bills would not be met.

It is just not financial poverty, and that is soul destroying. Trying to break the cycle of lack of access to good housing, education and aspiration. Loads of children do not value education and that is complex. They do well in primary with loads of pastoral support. Head to secondary and not being in the proper uniform, no smart phone, having parents who struggle to support you - bright kids but it is far easier to get singled out as a trouble maker than the kid whose home life is shite.

This is what puts me of visiting London. It just seems so prevalent and so many gangs etc

There will always be addicts and people dabbling at least they can buy them regulated and guilt free

That is true though I can’t see it happening in the near future. It’s getting harder to get opiate painkillers legitimately from the doctor even when one is genuinely in pain so I don’t suppose they will be made available for all anytime soon.

Is this why so many londoners opt for private or grammar schools?

@Andante57 that's due to the new nice guidelines

Literally put the fear of God back into them! Humanism teaches them that we're all here by accident and we're all going back to nothing when we die. Just a random collection of atoms. There are no real consequences to face in this life and nothing waiting after so who cares what we do!

@Cam2020

I am really lucky in my manager who will authorise funding to take children to the coast for the day etc but there really is no money. The homes that these children come from are so impoverished most people and most people on mumsnet will not understand this. They are great kids but their life chances are so compromised. Sitting targets.

What are the reasons behind the poverty? Not a goady question, but surely this is something needs to be explored and avoided?

The benefit cap has crippled lots of families in areas where rents are high. Even families in "affordable" social housing in my area are only left with just over £100 a week for all their bills, food, clothes and everything. And they'll have to pay 20% of their council tax, which is £400 a year.

I don't know how any family with a couple of kids can afford to pay all the bills, clothe the kids and eat on so little. All our food banks are desperate for donations.

[quote Christmasfairy2020]@Andante57 that's due to the new nice guidelines[/quote]
Ah ok. Did nice decide on this because of the opiate epidemic in America?

@Andante57

Treating addiction to drugs as a health issue not a criminal one. Or at least have robust input from both sectors. Deal with the addiction issue and much of the criminality would reduce too

Legoagogo genuine question but how would dealing with addiction reduce criminality.
Also, if drugs were made legal I realise that crime would reduce but surely people would still become addicts - they’d just buy them from a shop rather than a dealer.

If you can get your drugs free on prescription by a health professional you don't need to shop lift from Boots or let some grim man fuck you without a condom to 'earn' £10. If the prescribing unit also has trauma informed care and support services as part of the programme you can chip chip away at why people are drug dependent in the first place. I'd include alcohol dependency too in that. I have worked with countless drug addicts over the years and the overwhelming majority have a trauma background as babies, children or young adults

I live round the corner from where this happened and work with the children who grow up in this area. I'm sat here tonight wondering if I know either of the youths (I'm assuming) involved.
I haven't read through the whole thread, but you always here 'poverty, in my day we had nothing, these kids don't know the meaning' and find it incredibly unhelpful.
Poverty isn't just about being hungry for food (though that is an issue for some).
In my experience many of the children that go down this path have difficult home lives - mental health, drug/alcohol dependency, parents in prison, domestic abuse (often a combination).
Add to this the struggle to get by. As pp mentioned it is expensive to live in areas like these. My first (small 1 bed) flat is very close to where it happened. It recently sold for 400K, rents for a 1 bed property are over 1K per month, you couldn't get a house with £1million. Many families live in cramped conditions. These children grow up expecting life to be tough, expecting disappointment, expecting to be let down- whilst watching others seemingly glide through life with all the comforts that money can buy. All the local schools have massive gaps in the wealth of the families - in most classes you will have at least one family living with several children in a 1 bed, and other families living in properties worth £2million+.
We all know which end of the spectrum the children getting involved in gangs come from. Sadly, it is not difficult to spot the children who end up in gangs - I have rarely been surprised.
These children grow up feeling alienated from the families/ communities/ world in which they live. It didn't work out for their parents and they don't see how they can make it work for them. So they find their own way of belonging, feeling part of a group, feeling respected.
Until these children feel they have opportunities and support, little will change.

Dealing in drugs is also an easy out with poverty in poorer areas.

@sirfredfredgeorge

Make actual steps to end poverty

Break the hold of communities who will defend their own whatever they do, similar to the shooting of Rhys Jones where the families provided alibis to defend their murdering sprogs.

Is this why so many londoners opt for private or grammar schools?

It's why some do. My own boys both went to the local comprehensive in the area. Both did very well and ended up at RG universities, as did many of their friends who went to the same school.
They were both at university when there was a lot in the news about knife crime in London and both got quizzed by there uni friends about how safe it was in London. The sad truth is, for 2 white boys, it is very safe - neither of my boys have ever had any trouble when out. I wish my black friends could say the same.

@Christmasfairy2020

Is this why so many londoners opt for private or grammar schools?

I left London when my children were small. My job showed the stark reality of what it could mean for many children growing up there and as I wasn't from there originally I knew there were other places to live that didn't mean being stabbed was 'normal' or at least unsurprising. No matter how well I looked after my children I couldn't afford private educatuonor to live in a 'naice' area and I felt they were vulnerable to being in the wrong pace at the wrong time and there would be nothing I could do about it. My children now live in a teeny tiny village in the middle of no where. If a couple of wheelie bins are tipped it's news and the local paper is 'outraged'. I miss London for me but I know I've made the right decision to keep my children as safe as I can. I work with county lines and CSE kids in a nearby city. I'm not naive. As parents we can only do our best with the resources we have, where our family ties are and where are roots are. Every child matters was a strap line. I believe in that fundamental principle. It doesn't matter if your are 13 in the cotswolds or Brixton, your life and future should count and there should be a network there through family and the state and community services to help you be the best you can be

It is not just England. We have had a run of murders in the Vancouver area related to gangs. The saddest part is they are young men and teens mostly from a clearly defined ethnic group who seem attracted to the gangs. That group is losing far too many of their young men. I can't even imagine what it must be like to lose your young son to gang violence.

It is beyond sad, but also frightening as some of the murders have taken place in broad daylight in public areas.

I ended up involved in a gang for me it was easy to see how it happened. I was neglected at home I was constantly looking for love or attention and I found it in the older boys of my estate. I didn't do anything bad but I felt protected, safe, appreciated loved respected and wanted all emotions I never felt at home growing up.
Luckily I met someone quite young and broke off from those guys and ended up settling down, growing up and actually doing something good with my life, but it was so easy to fall into.
We had youth clubs we would go to them it was fun then they closed so we'd hang around outside etc there wasn't anything else to do at that time. This is around when things really started to kick off in London I think it would of been around 2005? 2008?.
Majority of those guys are in prison now some died in there 20s from stabbings a few died from heart attacks in there 20s.

It's really sad so many of those boys started off as friendly lovely people who'd carry peoples shopping home and be the most sweetest child during school too.
I don't know how we all fell into it except for me I knew why I was there. I'm not sure for them.

I used to work in drugs harm reduction. Before I left in 2006 our budget was cut by 70%. Politically harm reduction was not 'a thing' anymore so (tiny amounts) of money was focused on addiction treatment. We worked with active drug users who were not yet ready for treatment- they were just lovely humans with a shite story. We also did a lot of drugs information work in schools and had funding to work with 'hidden harm'- mainly children of addicts. All of thay does not exist anymore. I struggle to see how anyone considers this progress.

@Buttermaflooby

Literally put the fear of God back into them! Humanism teaches them that we're all here by accident and we're all going back to nothing when we die. Just a random collection of atoms. There are no real consequences to face in this life and nothing waiting after so who cares what we do!

Really? Religion is your answer to this?

@EmeraldShamrock

There is a short documentary on YouTube about how they fall prey to become a delivery service on county lines. Similarly to cookoo/ing also popular now around vulnerable areas. They befriend a vulnerable person, buy gifts, ask them to hold a random package for an hour to repay the kindness, someone will steal the packet and you owe £10,000. They're given little choice and the family can't save them once the debt starts.

Do you have a link to the documentary or know what the documentary is called. Would like to have a watch.

It hasn't been said but a high number of Autistic males are also involved in drug dealing.....

And yet plenty of posters on MN think there is nothing wrong with taking drugs.

Instability. Lack of secure, decent housing, lack of stable family unit including male role models, lack of attention, huge school year groups easy to slip through the gaps, peer pressure, inequality.

My friend recently lost her son to gang violence. He was stabbed in a retribution attack from rival gang. Funny enough, none of the above applied to him. Strong family unit with great father around, interested mother, did well academically, secure housing, ok financially. It was the pressure from his 'friends' kept him on the street and from young age there's a culture of you either be in this group or you're going to get targeted by that other group so you have to pick a side, then things are expected from you for being protected by them.. and it all escalate till it's too late

If you think only kids from homes where the parents don't care join gangs, you'd be very wrong.

Agree

It comes down to parenting imo. Youth clubs wouldn’t make a jot of difference. Kds need strong role models in their lives.

🙄

Usually drug related and yet many on here still defend their recreational coke habit 🙄

And get scared for their kids but not others.