Another teenager dead right now - how do we get a grip on gangs?

[NorthNineteen]

Name changed. A teenager was killed (shooting) close to where I live. It happened about an hour ago, there are loads of police, an air ambulance came. It's so awful, I don't know many details but what can be done to protect children? Clearly the current system is broken. It's so heartbreaking to think someone has lost their child today.

Khan and Cressida Dick between them are weak on crime.
The effects of Tory austerity
The disastrous war on drugs and counter productive prohibition.
An overcrowded city (London) with a lack of housing provision
family breakdown, boys growing up without fathers.
The glamorisation of thug life in Grime and rap music etc.

You could go on and on.

I don't know what the answer is.

The problem is that a lot of these young boys come from single parent families, mum working 60 hours a week on minimum wage and still not having enough money to pay bills. Not purposeful neglect but having no other choice.

The lure of selling drugs to make a lot of quick cash must seem like the easiest option when you're poor.

Gini coefficient. Greater 'relative' poverty has a direct correlation with greater levels of crime. Not poverty in itself, which is an important distinction.
Take one look at the disparity in income distribution in this country. In that respect I agree, the system is broken.

In the 90's there was a huge push parents against drugs when parents march on the house of dealers forcing them out.
This wouldn't work today the young dealers don't respect adults they'd probably stab you for trying.
Communities have broken down, life lost, drugs sold openly with no witnesses.
You'd be terrified to go witness.

@HumunaHey

Most gangs revolve around drug dealing. It's supply and demand. We need to stop normalising people (usually the detached middle class) taking coke and the like as though it's akin to having a bottle of wine. If there wasn't such a demand for illegal drugs, there really wouldn't be the type of gang violence we see today.

You're not going to stop the demand, any more than the Americans could with alcohol 100 years ago.

Prohibition is completely counter productive.

@InpatientGardener

I used to be a youth worker, granted perhaps the kids in gangs didn't come to club but we ran sessions for primary upwards with sometimes 60 attendees. We built really good relationships with the young people so when they were older and things were difficult for them they had a trusted adult they could talk to who could help and support them, even if we hadn't seen them for ages. Generic youth clubs running fun engaging activities that didn't just exist for those needing significant help already were about prevention, not necessarily cure.

Totally agree with this

Working in secondary schools it was always a matter of getting a relationship with the kids starting in year 7. Once you have them trusting a few members of staff they are easier to nudge in the right direction.

To catch them during the primary school years would be even better. Before any risk of them disengaging with education or regular society

@NorthNineteen we're round the corner too. Scary stuff. I didn't realise the gang issues were so bad round here. Sheltered from it I suppose

It's not lack of men in their lives, easy money or youth clubs. Experiencing bereavement that is the most significant factor - and not just of a parent figure, a friend, a cousin, anybody that meant something to them.

Early intervention teams are screaming out for funding for bereavement counselling for all children, whether it's their Nan dying of cancer or a kid in their class or who lives on their street getting hit by a car. But of course, they don't get it. Bereavement counselling is for nice kids with a direct connection, not every child without having to insist a parent proves how important the deceased was to them.

@MisdemeanourOnTheFloor exactly.

And what are the contributory factors to relative poverty? Massively overpriced housing has got to be the biggest. I’ve seen countless people paying £1,500 plus to live in some pretty low quality rental properties. If there was access to genuinely fairly priced council stock, that people could live in long term (none of this 2 week notice rubbish), it would make an enormous difference. There’s not much point in “affordable” housing just meaning x% below market rate, when the market is London

Then, bring back community centres and support, as many have said. I’ve lived on a new build housing development, mixed social and private - developers have very little scrutiny in terms of whether community facilities are supplied and will do anything to not build them. There were hundreds of houses and flats on this development, and not so much as a shop got provided

And finally, educate kids as to the difference between the turnover of a “road man” and their actual share. You’d be better off working in a minimum wage job and then you’d sleep better at night

@Pieceofpurplesky

Interestingly although poverty itself is different the rates in the 60s and today are very similar - 22% v 23%

The difference to the 60's is the drug trade. It's made organised crime/gang culture a lot more violent due to the sums involved and it's all about marking territory.

Also, a lot of the old school criminals and crime families (not to excuse them) did look after their communities and even kept people in line, even if they weren't to be messed with. The police were also feared and patrolled the streets.

Now it's just dog eat dog.

Oh and yes, policing. I’ve seen obvious, glow-in-the-dark crime families/dealer king pins go utterly untouched by local police for years and operate with impunity. Kids killing each other is in part the fallout of this

Youth workers are amazing volunteering time and energy, some of these DC have never had anyone believe in them, youth workers fill the gap.

Really? Have you lived with n north west London because I have!

It's not about education... it's so much more tram that, there not some parents holding their hats out for a crumb!!? They are children who have been brought up with prejudice, poverty and no one giving an actual fuck.... and then saying that h but you have a free education 😂😂 whilst they go to school in north Kensington watching kids in Porsche suvs, going to private school and living in 2 million pound houses just round the corner.... definitely not equal! So tell a 14 year old you can't have this

I'm sorry, I don't understand all the phrases you've used here, so I might missed something. I didnt grow up in North London but I did grow up in a poor estate in the South East that is classed as deprived. I saw people that had now then me. My oarents often had to say no, it never crossed my mind to turn to crime!

I'm not claiming to have all the solutions but it has to start with ending all the excuse making for shitty behaviour and focus on parental responsibility.

@User135644 yet still kids are living in poverty. It's just crap for them

Fathers staying with the mother of their children.

Do what they did in Glasgow to fight the same issue...... Pumped millions into investing in young people to give them hope of a future. It worked.

There is a short documentary on YouTube about how they fall prey to become a delivery service on county lines.
Similarly to cookoo/ing also popular now around vulnerable areas.
They befriend a vulnerable person, buy gifts, ask them to hold a random package for an hour to repay the kindness, someone will steal the packet and you owe £10,000.
They're given little choice and the family can't save them once the debt starts.

Well OP as someone who has worked in child protection for 15 years and before that in harm reduction drug services, can I suggest the totally revolutionary view that we fund services properly? Or maybe vote for people who give a crap about those on the lower rungs of society?
I am 'lucky' to work in an outstanding LA on top of criminal and sexual exploitation (fair enough, shame they have cut frontline social workers and supporting services as LA finding has been cut for over a decade).

I am really lucky in my manager who will authorise funding to take children to the coast for the day etc but there really is no money. The homes that these children come from are so impoverished most people and most people on mumsnet will not understand this. They are great kids but their life chances are so compromised. Sitting targets.

@JaniieJones

It comes down to parenting imo. Youth clubs wouldn’t make a jot of difference. Kds need strong role models in their lives.

This. Nothing a school or youth club will make any difference if parents don’t take some responsibility.

It hardly gets mentioned on the national news when it happens in London either. So so gut wrenchingly sad 🥲

Sorry for this OP
As someone who manages a adolescent safeguarding team which deals directly with harm outside of the home the answer to this is never easy.

Lots of issues tied up with austerity, the modern slavery act offering NRM's, the custody clock. Housing. Honestly I could go on and on.

Inherently the above if sorted would not make is so easy for gangs to exploit children.

Especially the sexual violence and the filming of this and then threats to share on social media.

Its very hard to entice a child away from drug dealing with a youth work activity. They are 'earning' 100's a day.

Could someone please 'explain like I'm 5' why legalising drugs is the answer? I'm not totally stupid,I understand that it would cut the need for County lines and exploitation of young people, but would something else not just take its place?

Well for some it is bad choices. You can choose to go to college/apprenticeship, work hard, progress, raise yourself out of poverty or you can as pp said take the easy money from drug gangs but risk your life. It's a choice.

I am really lucky in my manager who will authorise funding to take children to the coast for the day etc but there really is no money. The homes that these children come from are so impoverished most people and most people on mumsnet will not understand this. They are great kids but their life chances are so compromised. Sitting targets.

What are the reasons behind the poverty? Not a goady question, but surely this is something needs to be explored and avoided?

Answer -
Stop the war on drugs, dispense at clinics, make it all legal and completely unprofitable for players in the private market.