Another teenager dead right now - how do we get a grip on gangs?

[NorthNineteen]

Name changed. A teenager was killed (shooting) close to where I live. It happened about an hour ago, there are loads of police, an air ambulance came. It's so awful, I don't know many details but what can be done to protect children? Clearly the current system is broken. It's so heartbreaking to think someone has lost their child today.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. All of the things mentioned are part of the issue as well as pure youth foolishness, follower-mentality and lack of self control and morals.

Also, without demand, there won't be supply. A lot of the demand comes from the top and trickles down. If you do drugs (or your kids do) in your cushy little house, bars and offices and think "oh it's normal" in your circle, you're part of the problem. Ever thought about what the person who knows the person who deals these drugs to you have to do to get them? Survival of the fittest down there.

Education maintains the current status quo in terms of inequality. Schools in deprived areas cannot offer nearly the opportunities that those in more affluent areas.

What opportunities do they not offer? Don't they teach people to read or write? What about maths - don't they learn that?

Extra opportunities are nice but not critical. Economic situation doesn't prevent anyone istening and learning in class, or taking an interest in a particular subject.

As another PP said this is all just enabling and part of the problem.

@NorthNineteen

Curfews for under 18’s?

It happened near Ashmount school, news reports say the victim was taken to hospital but locals say the he was dead. So scary. Gang crime is pretty bad round here but the area is very mixed in terms of housing.

I don't know how the police can get on top of drug crime, I suspect they know a great deal but I guess tackling the root causes is harder. I do think legalisation might be the answer then it is less underground.

Curfews would never work this happened at 4.24 in the afternoon.

'I think “gang life” - guns, killing people, violence - is glamourised too much in society via films, music etc. Every teenager is a wannabe gangster these days'

Exactly. The whole gang culture thing is seen as something to aspire to. Families and communities need to try to change this. As long as it's all the government's fault and 'because of poverty' people think they have a green light to continue.

'Of course there were gangs in the 60s - ever heard of the Krays?'

Rtft. I've already answered that. Organised crime existed then and now. This knife and gang culture is not that.

Organised crime existed then and now. This knife and gang culture is not that.

It is exactly that @JaniieJones.

Most gangs revolve around drug dealing. It's supply and demand. We need to stop normalising people (usually the detached middle class) taking coke and the like as though it's akin to having a bottle of wine. If there wasn't such a demand for illegal drugs, there really wouldn't be the type of gang violence we see today.

This terrifies the hell out of me with DS9 growing up in London. Saving up for a mortgage 300 miles away because of it!

I honestly think harsher sentences no matter what age. More stop and search. Old enough to carry a knife, old enough to face the consequences.

I do think a part of it is parenting and lack of role models. Feeling like they 'belong' whilst being in a gang. I'd easily say a good 90% of the knife/gun crime around london lately is gang related.

The youth clubs and facilities for young people where I live are being vandalised every week. By the youth they were built for....

May he rest in peace.
My heart goes out to his family.

@Cam2020

*Give young people some hope of a decent life, a place to live and a good job would be a start. Gang life appeals on the promise of easy money. What if you could make good money from legal things (and didn't have to have gone to Eton)?*

Most people with good jobs haven't been to Eton. School, which is compulary, offers a way out for everybody but some people are too busy trying to be 'bad men' and education doesn't fit the image they want.

So what is your solution - for the people involved to just be someone else? Or maybe you don’t care about gang crime? The question was what can we do to stop it. I’ve made my suggestions - what’s yours?

Following

the issue isnt policing as such, more that the police need more power and cps needs to be more thorough.

For example My friend is a police officer and works on the drugs force, he literally Hands over shed load of evidence yet cps are wary of charging them or rarely charge criminals on time, they get bail And flee, and this isnt small amounts of drugs, its 20-30k worth of evidence

The gangs know how to work the system

I used to be a youth worker, granted perhaps the kids in gangs didn't come to club but we ran sessions for primary upwards with sometimes 60 attendees. We built really good relationships with the young people so when they were older and things were difficult for them they had a trusted adult they could talk to who could help and support them, even if we hadn't seen them for ages. Generic youth clubs running fun engaging activities that didn't just exist for those needing significant help already were about prevention, not necessarily cure.

If drugs were decriminalised would they be available in shops to buy or would users have to be registered as drug users?

I can’t see why both couldn’t be explored, but neither cigarettes nor alcohol require registration.

@Cam2020
Really? Have you lived with n north west London because I have!

It's not about education... it's so much more tram that, there not some parents holding their hats out for a crumb!!? They are children who have been brought up with prejudice, poverty and no one giving an actual fuck.... and then saying that h but you have a free education 😂😂 whilst they go to school in north Kensington watching kids in Porsche suvs, going to private school and living in 2 million pound houses just round the corner.... definitely not equal! So tell a 14 year old you can't have this

Bollocks. There was an even greater class divide. Some people think they're all so hard done to nowadays beause they can't afford 200quid trainers.

You must have misread my post , I said blatant inequality didn’t exist. How would he have known about £200 trainers when nobody else in his life had them?

Glasgow has had some success with a holistic approach. It is not just a policing issue. Their Violence Reduction Unit involves schools, communities, hospital, prisons as well as workplaces. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45572691.amp

Last March a family member was the victim of a violent crime. The police made arrests at the scene as a member of the public called 999 but the process afterwards was long and painful for the victim. The people who committed the crime were young men with multiple stints in prison (I found news articles of other cases)

Covid has exacerbated problems with the criminal justice system. The government's refusal to invest in Nightingale courts means that they are sometimes 2+ years behind in prosecuting crimes.

I follow the Secret Barrister on Twitter.
twitter.com/barristersecret/status/1371030760501747712?s=21
In this thread they talk about how slow justice is for a domestic violence victim.

Slow turnaround of crimes obviously leads to cases more likely to crumble as recollections may become hazier etc

On top of this if the person in remand has a trial that's delayed because of the government or reasons out of their control then they are granted a lesser sentence for having to endure the delay. Unless the government find Nightingale courts to deal with the backlog then it means lesser sentences because of the delay between being in remand and trial.

I suspect that probation services aren't well funded too. If people can't get employment after a stint in prison then they are more likely to drift into crime again.

I know that spending money on the justice system feels like supporting criminals but victims of crime will want fast justice so that they can move on sooner and keeping criminals who are released from prison away from committing crimes again is beneficial to society.

I can only imagine how hard it is to change your life if you're in a gang. The underfunded police are unlikely to help considering that there are crimes that they don't even visit the victims for and some will be so well connected that moving house isn't the answer.

Youth provision will help, enough police (in London cut by Boris Johnson). The lack of good male role models, though noticeably those with Asian family or heritage seem to have less of an issue with this.

As for gangs, those middle class people thinking that taking drugs is a victimless pastime are part of the cause.

I think the lack of role models is a huge factor, as is the lack of engagement in meaningful and accessible activities. I can think of a small town near me where kids can join Army cadets, air cadets, one of 2 rugby clubs, hockey, tennis, cycling, athletics, even rowing (which is free for kids whose parents receive benefits). It gives them somewhere to be and belong to and helps enormously.
I don't think it's all about money, the boys who stabbed Yusuf Mackie to death went to private school I believe?

@DynamoKev

Also it wouldn't hurt to have more Police around to investigate and deter.

It’s too far gone once you’ve reached the need to deter them. Young males in particular are very susceptible to being criminally exploited. Unfortunately they can make thousands of pounds on a regular basis by transporting drugs and other illegal items. Nothing legal can compete with that.

Interestingly although poverty itself is different the rates in the 60s and today are very similar - 22% v 23%

The comments on here about free education being there and listening totally miss the reality of people’s lives - if you’re living in terrible conditions, are grindingly poor, have all sorts of trouble at home, how on earth are you going to be able to concentrate on a maths lesson? Plus, if you have nothing to lose, you make pretty poor choices. Poverty is not just about having no money, it comes with so much more stuff that messes your head up. There’s a reason why millionaires (and their kids) don’t stab each other in the streets...