To speak to sister about personal hygiene

[Mouscadoo]

This is very long and i know this is a very sensitive subject and im trying trying to figure out if I am being very harsh or not. If this is the wrong place to post I can post elsewhere. For background, my DD is 16 months old. Around November last year, we moved out of our apartment that we had lived in for 3 years. We wanted to start to save for a mortgage and really couldn't do this while renting. We were very fortunate to be able to move into a family home so that we didn't have to pay rent. My younger sister had already been living here for 5 years plus.

So anyway we moved in and it has been fine overall. My younger sister is very easy going. We have our own spaces and we look after them respectively. My older sister is having fairly big work done to her own house and is going to be moving into the house also. She has 2 boys 2.5 and 4.5. She has been staying for 2-3 days at a time at the moment but will eventually be staying full time I believe for a few months. I knew it would be an adjustment for us but I was positive about my daughter spending time with her cousins and me spending time with my sister. I never anticipated it would be as hard as what it has been.

We have two very different parenting styles. The only way i could describe her parenting would be laissez-faire. The boys are pretty much allowed do as they please. The 2.5 year old has ripped up more books than I can count including my daughters books. They have now been put away. Both boys climb all over everything, my daughters play kitchen, the kitchen table which is very high up and the couches etc. I understand that boys do this but I feel that they are at the age especially the older boy to be able to be told not to climb all over things. When the 2.5 year old rips up the books or slams the doors, which is very dangerous as he could do it with my daughter standing right there. The problem is majority of the time my sister will do nothing to intervene. She will not tell them no and I find it very uncomfortable as I don't feel it is my place to say anything to them. The older boy has put his arms around my daughters neck and lifted her up. I had to sternly tell him we don't do that as its dangerous. My sister looked uncomfortable with this. In fairness to her she did tell him to stop and that he couldn't do that.

The thing that I am personally finding very hard to deal with is the personal hygiene. The older boy is in creche and I know that they pick up bugs and colds etc. But since they have started staying my daughter has been sick continuously. Their hygiene is not good at all. They never ever cover their mouths as this has never been explained to them. The other day at the dinner table as we were all eating the younger boy full force coughed all over the food on the table. The older boy runs around with snot hanging out of his nose 24/7. I have reluctantly told them both that they have to cover their mouths when they cough. They both use my daughters sippy cups and I have had to hide them as they chew and spit all over them. My sister just laughed and admitted she has never taught them to cover their mouths etc. My daughter got a very nasty cold off them and just when she had finally recovered they came over again and sure enough she was sick again. This obviously means a lack of sleep and a very upset clingy baby during the day.

I sympathise with my sister as her husband is not there to help. He has been helping with the work and does not stay with my sister on the days she is here. He does not come down in the evenings once the work is done. She is trying to co-ordinate a lot and it is an awful lot for her to deal with by herself. She has her hands full. I am looking for some opinions on what i should do or is this just something I have to just suck up. I feel I have tried to point out about the coughing etc and have interjected at times when my daughter was directly involved but I don't know what else to do. I would find it very difficult to approach with my sister as she is very sensitive. I don't want us being sick all summer. Would it be unreasonable to speak to my sister about the kids personal hygiene? What would you do in this situation please?

@HoppingPavlova

C’mon, I’ve never known a 2.5yo to have ‘good hygiene’. They are filthy little buggers and spread germs far and wide. Teaching them to cover their mouth at that age won’t get the results you are looking for as they can’t coordinate the cough and the cover up together and will generally cough then cover up as the cough is ending. 2.5yo also don’t wipe their noses, snot just streams down their face and when you notice it turn you wipe it. By that time they have put their hands in it and touched everything. As I said, filthy little buggers but perfectly normal.

Yes, but decent parents, parent them. Start to teach them, don't allow them to climb all over other peoples furniture & wipe their noses and put nappies on them!

Not just allow them to behave like feral creatures.

I would organise your meals separately to your sister. The quieter meals will be less stressful & you will avoid your nephews lack of table manners. just because you are sharing the house, doesn't mean you have to eat together.
If your sister queries ir, either explain that it's hard for everyone being around 3 small children constantly or that it's to give everyone some space in the house.

[quote Mouscadoo]@Minezatea I just started to teach her to cover her mouth. And she can bring her hand to her mouth, like imitating me..she obviously doesn't understand to do it of her own accord just yet.

2.5 year old isn't being potty trained at all. The 4.5 year old was only relatively recently potty trained and he also runs around naked in the evening. I dont mind the running around naked but the peeing on the floor and not being cleaned up is bothering. The kids share the living room space during the day[/quote]
Slightly off topic but you're meant to teach kids to cough into their elbow, not hand. As they then touch lots of things with their hands.

“Slightly off topic but you're meant to teach kids to cough into their elbow, not hand. As they then touch lots of things with their hands.”
Yes, it is advice we heard often last year even though we were all generally taught to cover our mouth with our hand.

7 in a 4 bedroom sounds fairly doable providing there are some boundaries and you’re able to have your own little space.Whilst I don’t think you should move out now, it would be good to broach the subject with your DP about when to move out? At what point that you’ve saved up enough should you move etc.? That way you have an end goal in sight.

Would it also help having some sort of rules for the children to follow at the dinner table? The 4.5 year old might be old enough to follow the rules but 2.5 year old might not find so easy. He will have to start to learn because I’m assuming in September he will be going to school?

Hopefully it’s not going to take too long until she moves out so if you can gently remind your sister or nephews if they’re going too far. Kids do need to learn boundaries and they also need to learn to either share or not use other people’s things unless they are allowed to. By 2.5 years old, they are old enough to know not to touch something. If they have their own sippy cup that is clearly labeled, it just needs to be reinforced that they can only use those. If they don’t have their own, you might find it easier to buy them one each and label it so they can use those instead.

And eventually you’ll be moving out too. In the mean time, the bills are going to be distributed between you and your sisters, right? At the moment, it’s shared between you and your younger sister?

Yes, but decent parents, parent them. Start to teach them, don't allow them to climb all over other peoples furniture & wipe their noses and put nappies on them

Completely agree. But OP is nonetheless complaining of the lack of personal hygiene (in regards to infection control) in a 2.5yo. That’s not reasonable.

You are unreasonable to expect ten people from three families in 4 bedrooms to be anything other than horrific.

Not necessarily horrific but even with the most scrupulous hygiene that number of people in that space are going to catch each other’s viruses, whether they be respiratory or gastro orientated.

Wow I'm surprised at all the answers saying suck it up. Erm no lol don't.

It's your sister and your nephews for Gods sake. If that were me I would treat them like my own child, you're instilling manners, not dictating their political opinions in life. Speak candidly to your sister and tell her you love them all and will treat your nephews like your own sons and how you treat your daughter. If she doesn't like it she can point it out. Personally I don't think she'd care too much, especially from the way you've described your relationship and you seem pretty easy going yourself. You're also saying it for their benefit.

My sister has full authority to discipline my kids and I love it when she explains they can/can't do something.. it teaches them that this isn't just mummy being like this, these are universal manners and everyone should behave like that.

As they say.. 'it takes a village...'. It's a shame how times are changing where you can't even correct anyone else's child anymore or they get all sensitive and upset. When I was growing up everyone in the community was able to correct you if you did something wrong or just forgot your manners (done politely of course).

And whoever said it's a tall order to expect a 4.5 year old to cover their mouth 😂😂😂. Plenty of 3 year olds can do it let alone 4. 4 is a very understanding age. I hate it when people baby kids so much. Jheez.

@Dora33

I would organise your meals separately to your sister. The quieter meals will be less stressful & you will avoid your nephews lack of table manners. just because you are sharing the house, doesn't mean you have to eat together. If your sister queries ir, either explain that it's hard for everyone being around 3 small children constantly or that it's to give everyone some space in the house.

100% this.

I would absolutely not share mealtimes with someone who allowed their child to cough all over the food 🤢

Do you or your younger sister not saying anything when your older sister leaves wee on the floor!?

I'd start pointing stuff like that out. Kid wees on the floor "Sister, kid has weed. Come and clear it up please." etc etc. Kid rips up one of your dd's books "Sister, kid has ripped up this book. Can you sort out a replacement please as DD really loves that one."

Don't let her just walk all over you. Maybe if she gets nagged about stuff it might make her step up. Or maybe even think twice about moving in.

I hope you won't have to share with them too much longer.

YABU about the illness. Totally normal for your dd to be picking up one thing after another (it is a horrible phase but it will pass). YANBU about everything else, your sister sounds like a lazy skank.

Ha, you think boys only rip up books and climb on things? You're going to be in for a shock.

@Sillawithans

I feel sorry for the sister that lived there in peace and now has a bunch of kids to live with. Where do you all sleep? I have a large five bedroom house but no way could three separate families live in it.

Talk to your sister. It's not so much hygiene but a lack of basic manners.

Just what I was thinking. My god what an awful set up!

Therunecaster

Sillawithans
I feel sorry for the sister that lived there in peace and now has a bunch of kids to live with. Where do you all sleep? I have a large five bedroom house but no way could three separate families live in it.

Talk to your sister. It's not so much hygiene but a lack of basic manners.

Just what I was thinking. My god what an awful set up!

Why is it an awful set up? Presumably the op's family are in one room, sister #1 in another, sister #2 in a third, and the 2 boys in the 4th?

And whoever said it's a tall order to expect a 4.5 year old to cover their mouth 😂😂😂. Plenty of 3 year olds can do it let alone 4. 4 is a very understanding age. I hate it when people baby kids so much. Jheez.

Sure, 4yo is doable but OP is also complaining about a 2.5yo not doing this. That’s unreasonable.

@HoppingPavlova i am moreso finding my sisters ongoing lack of help or input in situations frustrating. A lot of his behaviour is dangerous along with unhygienic. For instance when he peed on the floor my sister pretty much ignored it even when I pointed it out and I ended up having to deal with it. Surely he should be told that slamming doors is dangerous and that should be reinforced throughout the day. He will constantly take food off my daughters plate but my sister will not say a thing. I usually will say something but my post was around whether to talk to my sister directly about it separately and privately.

You could try talking to your sister to explain. The problem is that she sounds so clueless that it not make a difference.

That’s why you need to take things into your own hands amid the chaos.

Sit between nephew and Dd so he can’t get her food, or eat separately.

If possible get some sort of soft-close device fitted on doors.

Never leave dd alone with nephews.

Get out as much as you can for as long as you can each day.

Spend time in your own room.

OP
Here is an example of soft-close door. mechanisms to buy.

You could telephone the shop to ask more. Could your DH fit them?

www.hafele.co.uk/en/product/soft-closing-mechanism-for-interior-and-exterior-doors-stainless-steel-or-aluminium/0000006c00012d6300010023/

DS is 2.5 and pretty mucky, however we consistently remind him, so he wipes hands and face before he gets down from the table. He tries to cover his mouth before he coughs and sometimes he gets it, mostly he's a bit late, but he's trying so I think that's fine, when he has a snotty nose he actually asks for a tissue, he needs help wiping it properly and not all over his face but again he's learning. He automatically washes his hands after going to the toilet (he has a little step) and this is more fun for him since we switched to bar soap. I don't agree 2.5 is too young to learn basic hygiene, they won't get it right all of the time and will still spread germs prolifically, but the lessons need to be started early. DH commented when we had our first trip to a pub recently that he's amazed how few men was their hands after urinating, even in the midst of a pandemic.

I would just treat the nephews exactly like my own kids, wipe their snot, wash their hands after toileting them or before meals, and tell them quietly and firmly to get down off the table/kitchen counter/ don't rip books etc.

If Sis objects, tell her it takes a village to raise a child and she needs to do the same for your child.