To speak to sister about personal hygiene

[Mouscadoo]

This is very long and i know this is a very sensitive subject and im trying trying to figure out if I am being very harsh or not. If this is the wrong place to post I can post elsewhere. For background, my DD is 16 months old. Around November last year, we moved out of our apartment that we had lived in for 3 years. We wanted to start to save for a mortgage and really couldn't do this while renting. We were very fortunate to be able to move into a family home so that we didn't have to pay rent. My younger sister had already been living here for 5 years plus.

So anyway we moved in and it has been fine overall. My younger sister is very easy going. We have our own spaces and we look after them respectively. My older sister is having fairly big work done to her own house and is going to be moving into the house also. She has 2 boys 2.5 and 4.5. She has been staying for 2-3 days at a time at the moment but will eventually be staying full time I believe for a few months. I knew it would be an adjustment for us but I was positive about my daughter spending time with her cousins and me spending time with my sister. I never anticipated it would be as hard as what it has been.

We have two very different parenting styles. The only way i could describe her parenting would be laissez-faire. The boys are pretty much allowed do as they please. The 2.5 year old has ripped up more books than I can count including my daughters books. They have now been put away. Both boys climb all over everything, my daughters play kitchen, the kitchen table which is very high up and the couches etc. I understand that boys do this but I feel that they are at the age especially the older boy to be able to be told not to climb all over things. When the 2.5 year old rips up the books or slams the doors, which is very dangerous as he could do it with my daughter standing right there. The problem is majority of the time my sister will do nothing to intervene. She will not tell them no and I find it very uncomfortable as I don't feel it is my place to say anything to them. The older boy has put his arms around my daughters neck and lifted her up. I had to sternly tell him we don't do that as its dangerous. My sister looked uncomfortable with this. In fairness to her she did tell him to stop and that he couldn't do that.

The thing that I am personally finding very hard to deal with is the personal hygiene. The older boy is in creche and I know that they pick up bugs and colds etc. But since they have started staying my daughter has been sick continuously. Their hygiene is not good at all. They never ever cover their mouths as this has never been explained to them. The other day at the dinner table as we were all eating the younger boy full force coughed all over the food on the table. The older boy runs around with snot hanging out of his nose 24/7. I have reluctantly told them both that they have to cover their mouths when they cough. They both use my daughters sippy cups and I have had to hide them as they chew and spit all over them. My sister just laughed and admitted she has never taught them to cover their mouths etc. My daughter got a very nasty cold off them and just when she had finally recovered they came over again and sure enough she was sick again. This obviously means a lack of sleep and a very upset clingy baby during the day.

I sympathise with my sister as her husband is not there to help. He has been helping with the work and does not stay with my sister on the days she is here. He does not come down in the evenings once the work is done. She is trying to co-ordinate a lot and it is an awful lot for her to deal with by herself. She has her hands full. I am looking for some opinions on what i should do or is this just something I have to just suck up. I feel I have tried to point out about the coughing etc and have interjected at times when my daughter was directly involved but I don't know what else to do. I would find it very difficult to approach with my sister as she is very sensitive. I don't want us being sick all summer. Would it be unreasonable to speak to my sister about the kids personal hygiene? What would you do in this situation please?

Your daughter is going to catch their coughs and colds regardless of whether they cover their mouths when they cough.

You are unreasonable to expect ten people from three families in 4 bedrooms to be anything other than horrific.

Thank you everyone else for all the helpful advice. Things I have done so far- moved toys out of communal areas and into storage space. Kept daughters cups separate and away, which is tricky to do but will figure it out. I didnt know if me encouraging manners and hygiene was overstepping a boundary but I'm glad to see most people saying it's okay to do this. I will continue to encourage covering mouths, washing hands etc. If the situation gets worse I will look into moving out but for now it's not the ideal option so I need to figure out how to live with it.

@ScrollingLeaves some great suggestions. I definitely need to get out more and i do encourage them to spend lots of time in the garden. Unfortunately they spend huge amounts of time on TV.

Been there done that. Parent all three and when you are told to back off just carry on. You will be wiping noses and washing hand continuously but the alternative is gross. The children learn fast and their parents get pissed off.

I would be more upfront with the boys- they are your nephews, and if your sister is worn out and letting them run riot then they need to understand basic manners.
Things like “please don’t use the baby’s cup as it spreads germs” “don’t cough all over the table” etc.
I would also wipe a toddler’s nose !

[quote Mouscadoo]@AlmostSummer21 thank you. This is exactly it. People are missing my point. I know children (not just boys) pick up all sorts. I am not unrealistic about this. I know it will build DDs immunity. I am finding it hard that nothing at all is being done to try and teach them manners around hygiene. In the evenings my sister leaves them to run around the house naked for around 2 hours abd naturally the younger one ends up peeing on the floor.[/quote]
I am aghast that your sister allows this to happen. That is outrageous. Regardless of sex, children should not be pissing on floors. How does she think this is ok when she's in a shared space?!

I understand that boys do this

Gosh, those horrid feral boys and your poor delicate DD.

Your sister is a laissez-faire parent. The sex of her children has nothing to do with it.

Why wouldn'5 you tell them to stop strangling/ripping/breaking your daughter's things? That's just daft.

You all need to establish ground rules you can all live with.

"Not your house, so not your rules" - some people are saying.
But it is your, and your younger sister's, home the same as if you were renting.

It's not right for your older sister to let her kids be so unhygienic and badly behaved in your home.
I think it's absolutely fine to tell the kids to wash their hands, wipe their noses etc and definitely speak to your sister about the peeing on the floor.

I'm assuming your DD does not yet cover her mouth when she coughs or sneezes? At what age do you think she reliably will? This is something important to teach but it can take some kids a while to reliably do that and it is not really a matter of hygiene in a pre-schooler. As your DD is so young I assume that she is pretty much in the room with you at all times if not asleep? This enables you to protect her by reminding the boys of appropriate behaviour, wiping their noses, washing hands etc. as needed so the impact on your DD is likely to be minimised though when you have that many children in a smaller space bugs will spread like wildfire. In terms of the peeing on the floor, I guess at 2.5 she is trying to potty train him so that might be why she lets him go naked? This is a stage when there can be a lot of accidents as you will discover for yourself when your DD gets to that stage. Your DD won't walk in it/ play in it with you monitoring so if it happens why not just alert your sister to the fact that there's a mess needing to be cleared up. If she's not able to at that point you could perhaps ask her to only leave the nappy off when she is able to clean up any mess that is made as it can be a bit tricky to manage otherwise. My son chewed cups until he was 8 BTW. Drove us nuts as such a waste but it took that many years of reminders for him to grow out of it. Just keep your DD cups in your room and if anyone asks say they are her favorites and you want them not to be chewed.

You are unreasonable to expect ten people from three families in 4 bedrooms to be anything other than horrific.

I think it's 7 people in 4 bedrooms - absolutely doable, but wearing, if op is having to police her sister's children as well.

@RaspberryCoulis oh give over making something out of nothing. I said boys because in this instance it is two boys. Kids will be kids, it's the parents responsibility to do what they can. I would say the exact same thing if it was two girls.

@hunkypunk thank you. You are very right. The space is actually not a big issue, we make it work. Its everything else.

@Minezatea I just started to teach her to cover her mouth. And she can bring her hand to her mouth, like imitating me..she obviously doesn't understand to do it of her own accord just yet.

2.5 year old isn't being potty trained at all. The 4.5 year old was only relatively recently potty trained and he also runs around naked in the evening. I dont mind the running around naked but the peeing on the floor and not being cleaned up is bothering. The kids share the living room space during the day

This is as much a DH problem as a sister problem if he won’t countenance moving out.

I would find what you describe really hard, OP. I am generally quite tolerant but parents who let their kids totally run riot without any awareness of the impact on other people drive me a bit nuts. However, I'm not sure what you can do other than trying to establish with your sister the things that you're not up for putting up with and just sitting it out until you can leave. Or you sit her down and tell her what you think and also give her an opportunity to talk about anything you and yours are doing that irks her... Might be good to get it all out into the open?! Would require quite a lot of nerve though.

YANB (at all) U expecting that pee is cleared up off the floor straight away!!

In your shoes I think I would stick it out, but also let go of any reluctance about telling her kids what to do. I would just go ahead and tell them - honey your nose is snotty, here let’s blow it. Remember to cover your mouth when you cough. Please be gentle with that book. We don’t climb on the furniture. Etc.

Maybe this will irritate your Dsis, but she will know she hasn’t got a leg to stand on as she should be saying these things herself.

Is there a garden? Weather improving may help things as they can be out in the garden more.

If you are intending to stay there any longer, I would kind of disregard your sensitive Sister, and her lax parenting,and would take it upon myself, to intervene in her children's feral,and naughty behaviour, as someone has to teach them right from wrong, so you could be doing them a favour in the long run.

If you have all had to be put into this overcrowded situation for the time being, there has to be some kind of proper,and sensible arrangements made, for a more harmonious existence for everyone.

Your Sister should well know, that it's not nice to have small children running around with a snotty nose all the time,and coughing in people's faces etc. So I would take action on this, no matter what your Sister thinks.

100% agree with PP - just step in when you see behaviour you don't like and say something. Who cares if your sister or her kids are a bit annoyed. Unacceptable behaviour from children should be challenged.

Could you raise it along the lines of "look we've all had a few coughs and colds recently (not to mention we know COVID is on the up - assuming you're in UK) so how about we set some rules to help us all stay as well as possible". Then go with the tissues and bin in every room idea someone said.

Get the kids involved, find some funny pictures of people doing hygienic and no so hygienic things and talk about them. Kids find snot and pee amusing so use it to your advantage. I'd probably be a bit silly with them about it say things like "I'm worried if little Jimmy does any more wees on the floor we'll get flooded. How about we get a potty for him to wee in" or "If we don't wipe that snot off your nose you might get stuck to something by a big long snot string" (I know it's gross but in my experience it works quite well) etc.

Google 'Operation Ouch germs' - loads of gross but informative videos available for them to watch too.

Have funny competitions to practice the best sneezing and coughing into the elbow technique - who can do the fanciest move but still catch their cough or sneeze etc

Good luck!

I'd would be pulling my hair out. You only have 2 options, ignore it unless it's a safety issue or move out. Either way your Sister could be unhappy.

It seems like an odd situation where you are all living together. Since it's your sister I would have thought you could say something to her or even the children. My aunts would have told all the children off when we were young, not just their own children! But whilst it's not your house, it's not theirs either. You can tell her what your concerns are but she doesn't have to listen.

C’mon, I’ve never known a 2.5yo to have ‘good hygiene’. They are filthy little buggers and spread germs far and wide. Teaching them to cover their mouth at that age won’t get the results you are looking for as they can’t coordinate the cough and the cover up together and will generally cough then cover up as the cough is ending. 2.5yo also don’t wipe their noses, snot just streams down their face and when you notice it turn you wipe it. By that time they have put their hands in it and touched everything. As I said, filthy little buggers but perfectly normal.

Better to teach sneezing/coughing into a hanky or elbow. Wash hands when they come in from outside. Wash hands at nappy/toilet charges. Wash hands before and after eating. Wash hands after blowing noses. Wash hands if you pick your nose.

Set things up so they can do it independently. If necessary have a star chart.

[quote Mouscadoo]@AlmostSummer21 thank you. This is exactly it. People are missing my point. I know children (not just boys) pick up all sorts. I am not unrealistic about this. I know it will build DDs immunity. I am finding it hard that nothing at all is being done to try and teach them manners around hygiene. In the evenings my sister leaves them to run around the house naked for around 2 hours abd naturally the younger one ends up peeing on the floor.[/quote]
Your sister is bloody feral! If she's ok with her DC peeing on her floor, crack on. But she's at your fathers house, sharing with the rest of you. Clearly she's incapable of parenting them to an acceptable standard in communal living/someone else's home. Honestly I'd have no issue doing it for her. If she doesn't like it she can step up or leave 🤷🏻‍♀️

My cousins ex wife was the same, with the same things. My cousin left, eventually, had the kids 50:50 still paid her a lot each month and to his utter credit, without ever badmouthing her (he's a much
Better person than me!!) showed them a much better way of living and they've turned into lovely young adults.