To speak to sister about personal hygiene

[Mouscadoo]

This is very long and i know this is a very sensitive subject and im trying trying to figure out if I am being very harsh or not. If this is the wrong place to post I can post elsewhere. For background, my DD is 16 months old. Around November last year, we moved out of our apartment that we had lived in for 3 years. We wanted to start to save for a mortgage and really couldn't do this while renting. We were very fortunate to be able to move into a family home so that we didn't have to pay rent. My younger sister had already been living here for 5 years plus.

So anyway we moved in and it has been fine overall. My younger sister is very easy going. We have our own spaces and we look after them respectively. My older sister is having fairly big work done to her own house and is going to be moving into the house also. She has 2 boys 2.5 and 4.5. She has been staying for 2-3 days at a time at the moment but will eventually be staying full time I believe for a few months. I knew it would be an adjustment for us but I was positive about my daughter spending time with her cousins and me spending time with my sister. I never anticipated it would be as hard as what it has been.

We have two very different parenting styles. The only way i could describe her parenting would be laissez-faire. The boys are pretty much allowed do as they please. The 2.5 year old has ripped up more books than I can count including my daughters books. They have now been put away. Both boys climb all over everything, my daughters play kitchen, the kitchen table which is very high up and the couches etc. I understand that boys do this but I feel that they are at the age especially the older boy to be able to be told not to climb all over things. When the 2.5 year old rips up the books or slams the doors, which is very dangerous as he could do it with my daughter standing right there. The problem is majority of the time my sister will do nothing to intervene. She will not tell them no and I find it very uncomfortable as I don't feel it is my place to say anything to them. The older boy has put his arms around my daughters neck and lifted her up. I had to sternly tell him we don't do that as its dangerous. My sister looked uncomfortable with this. In fairness to her she did tell him to stop and that he couldn't do that.

The thing that I am personally finding very hard to deal with is the personal hygiene. The older boy is in creche and I know that they pick up bugs and colds etc. But since they have started staying my daughter has been sick continuously. Their hygiene is not good at all. They never ever cover their mouths as this has never been explained to them. The other day at the dinner table as we were all eating the younger boy full force coughed all over the food on the table. The older boy runs around with snot hanging out of his nose 24/7. I have reluctantly told them both that they have to cover their mouths when they cough. They both use my daughters sippy cups and I have had to hide them as they chew and spit all over them. My sister just laughed and admitted she has never taught them to cover their mouths etc. My daughter got a very nasty cold off them and just when she had finally recovered they came over again and sure enough she was sick again. This obviously means a lack of sleep and a very upset clingy baby during the day.

I sympathise with my sister as her husband is not there to help. He has been helping with the work and does not stay with my sister on the days she is here. He does not come down in the evenings once the work is done. She is trying to co-ordinate a lot and it is an awful lot for her to deal with by herself. She has her hands full. I am looking for some opinions on what i should do or is this just something I have to just suck up. I feel I have tried to point out about the coughing etc and have interjected at times when my daughter was directly involved but I don't know what else to do. I would find it very difficult to approach with my sister as she is very sensitive. I don't want us being sick all summer. Would it be unreasonable to speak to my sister about the kids personal hygiene? What would you do in this situation please?

@BlueDucky

And you can ask them to wipe their nose.

You don't ask small children.

You tell them while handing them a tissue.

You then have the pleasure of teaching them not to dump tissues on you, on the floor or on whatever surface and putting it in the bin.

Oh and within 30 minutes their nose will be snotty again....

You're living rent free. Hurry up and save up so you can move out.

Sounds like you're a bit precious about your daughter just because she's a girl (definite SMOG). I don't like the insinuation that the boys are gross and badly behaved just because of their sex. I have 3 boys and they've never ripped up books or destroyed other people's property. Sounds like it's more about how your sister is parenting them than anything else. I think you can choose to suck it up or move on out!

Children need to be taught manners and hygiene but if you're living in a house together, consider yourself to be swimming in a communal germ pool. It will do your daughter's immune system no harm, she'd have had bugs anyway.

It's easy to say kids should behave well, when it comes to that age it's a different matter and there are only so many times you can tell them really. Sometimes you overlook a bit of nosepicking if they are doing something else right or are tired and on the verge of stropping out. You nudge them towards good habits but they will always be mucky creatures.

I think you need to meet halfway, set ground rules (no breaking toys or books, no climbing on furniture, no manhandling your DD) and tell your sister that if she doesn't enforce them, you will.

Basically I think she's being too lax and you're being too uptight and you need to meet in the middle.

Kids will catch colds, and yes you can parent them. I parent any family or friends children the same was I do mine, kids should listen to adults. Suggest they use their elbow to cough into. Show them. Then remind when they cough by saying below. Otherwise coughing in your hand and touching stuff is pointless. Snot yep part of life, give the a tissue or blow their nose, it's helping. It is good for your child's immune system to get colds but I know it's hard work. If it was a major thing I would deal in the moment of parent not there. I wouldn't punish them ( such as naughty step as that's up to the parent anyway ), just verbal reminders.

Reading the title I thought you meant they didn't bath or shower.

I don't think you can force your sister to change her parenting. So you are just going to have to work around her boys. I suggest getting a lock on your door and keeping books /nice things locked away. The hygenge thing can be taught, but honestly if the boys going to nursery they are going to pick up bugs and as you are over crowded your daughter will pick up these bugs. Nothing you can do to stop her picking them up I'm afraid. But it's building her immunity so it's a good thing.

Are you in the house all day long? Can you take your daughter out to play groups etc to get away for a bit?

Its 3 months so once they are gone it will be all good again. So think you just have to accept it and adapt

As I'm sure you'd rather not move, then I think I would just model good hygiene and discipline through my own DC (which you are probably already doing) and only step in if they are doing something to upset my DC, including ruining their personal things.

Maybe you say to all DC before meals "time for you all to wash your hands". Surely your sister won't step in and say no then don't have to? Maybe you could even leave some tissues on the table and make it clear that they are for coughing into etc.

Ultimately it depends on your relationship with your sister but if you can't be comfortably direct with her then I'd do little things as above.

There are two seperate issues here. You have different parenting styles and I see how that would be annoying. However the hygiene thing, I think you are being unrealistic. Kids bring home bugs from school/day care, that's just the way it is. It is what all families experience when dc1 starts day care. Many people are so smug that their dc is sooo healthy, only to find when they start day care, they are constantly sick with minor illnesses.

@Aquagirl19

Sounds like you're a bit precious about your daughter just because she's a girl (definite SMOG). I don't like the insinuation that the boys are gross and badly behaved just because of their sex. I have 3 boys and they've never ripped up books or destroyed other people's property. Sounds like it's more about how your sister is parenting them than anything else. I think you can choose to suck it up or move on out!

You can't have it both ways -- Alongside the insinuation that boys are gross because of their sex has to be the implication that girls are well behaved because of their sex. And you can't have a SMOG unless boys are harder to parent into being not gross than boys can you.

Put your DD’s things in your own room.

Go out several hours a day with DD just walking around if need be. Go to your room early with DD. ( Have your own radio, books, screen etc.) A fair rule would be that nephews are not to go in.

Put a box of giant tissues and a bin in every room.

Unless the sneeze and cough is into their elbows, nephews’ hands will spread germs anyway but try to tech using a tissue then putting it into a bin. Wipe the boys’ snot yourself, gently and good-humourdly.

Otherwise relax about the germs. Before Covid DD would probably have been at baby groups - and you can have no idea just how germ covered those got! The more germs she gets now the more immune she’ll be later so try not to worry.

Don’t leave nephew alone with DD.

Encourage playing in the garden - perhaps buy some garden toys.

This is all so difficult but just try to get through it with a daily routine for you and DD.

There is not much you can do.

I sympathise OP, it must be so hard to live with young kids who are raised totally differently than the way you are attempting to do with with your DD.

Personally since your DD has been consistently ill and it's likely coming from the boys, I'd pick up on the coughing and not covering mouths etc. Doesn't need to be done harshly, just little reminders. Your sister obviously knows this is the 'right' manners for them to have, so I doubt she'd argue against it or take it up with you.

I feel like picking it up directly with the boys as and when it happens is less awkward and confrontational than picking it up with their mum by saying her kids are making your child ill through their grossness (not in those words obvs ).

I also wouldn't move out due to this, given the amount you are saving in rent and the short-ish length of your stay.

@FlyNow

There are two seperate issues here. You have different parenting styles and I see how that would be annoying. However the hygiene thing, I think you are being unrealistic. Kids bring home bugs from school/day care, that's just the way it is. It is what all families experience when dc1 starts day care. Many people are so smug that their dc is sooo healthy, only to find when they start day care, they are constantly sick with minor illnesses.

I do think this is valid as well. My boss has a 2 year old and he is constantly picking up stuff from nursery, so you will likely have this issue with your DD when she starts in some form of childcare anyway.

Ok. So you're saving well while you're there-keep that at the front of your mind. Your sister and kids should only be there a couple of months.

7 is quite a few people, but is NOT loads as people have been saying.

I presume your sister with the kids will be paying towards bills as well?

I would look at it as a short term pain for long term gain.

Then again I have no problem, at all, telling nieces/nephews/other kids to stop climbing in furniture/wash their hands/cover their mouths or whatever else. If the parents don't like it, they're free to get in there first 🤷🏻‍♀️

If you're a bit squeamish tell them to go to mummy to have their nose blown.

I would make sure all 3 have a specific cup that's theirs and then stop them drinking out of DD's or DD out if theirs. What their mum lets them do amongst themselves us up to her. But I wouldn't hesitate to say say to DD 'remember the yellow cup is yours' or ' no DD that's Greg's cup, here's yours, remember we don't share cups'.

Ok it's more work for you than if your sister actually parented her kids, but at least you'll have things the way you prefer them! If your sister complains, tell her she's free to tell her boys before you do! If she thinks it's fine fir them to climb on furniture or use DD's cup just say 'it's not' and don't engage further.

Short term pain, long term gain!!

Good luck!

I'd move out. I wouldn't want my dd picking up feral behaviour

@ravenmum

just expect that others would have the basic manners of covering their mouths when coughing This is unrealistic to expect from a 2.5-year-old. Sure, you can teach them, but at that age they are not going to be great at it yet.

Yes, but the point is he's snot being taught!!! Neither of them are.

“TailFeatherz

I'd move out. I wouldn't want my dd picking up feral behaviour”

These living arrangements won’t go on long enough for that as the nephews will be out in about 7 months.

It really isn’t that feral for 2.5 and 4.5. though it must be very difficult for OP.

I'l suppose I'd just start telling the kids off etc.

"Ben, cough into your elbow so you don't spread germs". If they go to nursery surely they're taught that there anyway.

"Tim, get off the table!"

"Sandra, Ben is dripping snot again! Do you want me to wipe it or will you?"

Yes, you are then the very annoying bossy one but it's better than sitting there feeling full of rage about it and not doing anything. Your sister may well bring up she doesn't like you disciplining her kids but then it will open up the opportunity to talk about it. My sister and I have very different parenting styles. Only really an issue on family holidays so I just suck it up, but if it's going to be for a long time you need to do something.

I agree with others including plantsitter earlier that if you are living together and are family it is ok to share the ‘parenting’. I have no problem with my siblings/parents telling off my sometimes feral children and helping them in other ways. Also my friends if we are spending time together. If your sharing a house it almost becomes a collective responsibility anyway. If you feel awkward about it, just tell your sister you will be doing so but frame it as a positive and that she can also help with your little angels.

Kids get colds all the time once they start mixing with each other at nursery / school. Your daughter was almost certainly going to pick up their colds anyway, regardless of if they covered their mouths.

@AlmostSummer21 thank you. This is exactly it. People are missing my point. I know children (not just boys) pick up all sorts. I am not unrealistic about this. I know it will build DDs immunity. I am finding it hard that nothing at all is being done to try and teach them manners around hygiene. In the evenings my sister leaves them to run around the house naked for around 2 hours abd naturally the younger one ends up peeing on the floor.

@GoodbyePorpoiseSpit

Are you not being a bit precious? There’s a kind of ‘thing’ about smug mothers of girls.... Have you ever heard of it? Just make sure you’re not being a bit prissy about your own child abs judging them too harshly. I’d say that kids don’t generally worry about snotty noses and coughing, it’s quite a tall order to expect them to manage that at 2.5 and 4.5 I think!

It's not 'prissy' to not want to see snotty children, if they're not capable of dealing with it then their mother should be doing the cleaning up. If they started coughing across food at a table where I was sitting they'd be told to stop or leave the table if the mother can't be bothered.

Tbh nursery are known for kids constantly having colds and now your daughter is mixing with children going to nursery its hardly surprising.
I wouldn't expect a 2.5 yr old would over their mouth but I would older children. But they are touching each others toys etc it's just life I'm afraid for a while

The ripping of books is unacceptable and so it's the feral climbing.
I wouldn't be holding my tongue though...dunno why you're doing that? Maybe if you raise it your sister will see it's actually unreasonable for them to act that way?

I voted YABU because of how you are approaching it, even though I agree with you on that the behavior is not acceptable.
I would define a strategy for each issue:

• covering mouth when coughing: ask her to enforce it, and say that you’ll be reminding them as well.
• snotty nose: send the child to your sister every single time. If she says he doesn’t need to blow his nose ask her if she wouldn’t blow her nose if she had snot coming out.
• sippy cups etc: do the boys have their own? If not buy some and then you can ask them to please not use your DS’s. You'll have to either supervise this or keep your DD’s out of reach.
• dangerous behavior around your DD: this one is a bit difficult. Obviously picking up a child by the neck is not ok, tell them off and then ask your sister to handle the consequence part of it (hopefully she’ll take the hint and do something). However you also have to accept that older children will do things that as a parent of a 16mo you find horrifying/dangerous. The onus is on you to make sure your DD is safe / doesn’t copy the behaviour. For ex they should be allowed to play with legos even though she could swallow the small parts, or climbing somewhere even if it would be dangerous for her to do the same. You’ll just have to supervise your DD.

[quote Mouscadoo]@Whyhello completely agree that it is my sisters parenting. It's very frustrating for me to watch as her kids run riot and do dangerous things as she says nothing[/quote]
So you just say something. Jeez I dunno why you're being so precious about not telling them off!

@aquagirl19 definitely not a SMOG, which I've never even heard of that term. Not being precious just dealing with a difficult living situation and trying to navigate what to do but thanks for the label!