Come on, be completely honest?

[Judith0000]

AIBU to believe that most families say things to each other that they wouldn't say to someone outside of the family face to face?

My brother in law is a golf bore.
When I'm at my sisters, I try to avoid being in a position where I'm alone with him because he switches virtually every conversation around to golf, when he's next playing, who is playing on TV, where they are in the league etc.
I see no reason to blatantly tell him he's a golf bore.
On Thursday, DH, DS and I were invited to a BBQ at my sisters.
It was a lovely afternoon and on the way home in the car, I mentioned that I was happy that the weather had been so lovely because we had been able to stay in the garden.
DH replied that it wouldn't have mattered if it had rained because we could have all gone inside.
I said I preferred the garden.
DH asked why so I said that by staying in the garden, i didnt have to listen to the golf in the background on the TV or listen to my BIL talking about golf (he prefers to stay in front of the TV watching golf).
DH says I am being nasty and I'm rude and if i wouldn't say it to his face, i shouldn't utter those words in my own home.

My best friend and I went shopping for a dress for her sisters wedding.
She chose a white dress. I gently asked her if she might consider a different colour, but she loved this dress and chose to buy it.
I asked my DH what he thought and I explained, rightly or wrongly, that I felt it wasnt the done thing to wear the same colour as the bride. Again, my DH says I am wrong for not speaking up and telling her directly that she would upstage the bride (not what i said btw) and if i wasnt prepared to say it to her face, i shouldn't say it to anyone.

This crops up time and time again, but moreso lately until we are now at a point where I only speak about things I would be happy to say to the persons face.

Another example this week is I asked my DS to close the fridge and freezer doors because he had left them open for 10 minutes while he was looking for something to eat.
I had not long returned from the supermarket and the frozen food had been in the car boot for over an hour.
DS asked why he needed to close the doors, I told him that the food would get spoiled and hadn't been in the fridge freezer long.
DH turned and said 'Ok, you've made your point, leave it now!'
Since then, DS has responded with 'Ok, you've made your point.' whenever I have asked him more than once to put something away, take his plate out, bring his washing to me.
Today, I haven't spoken very much for fear of being told I am saying something wrong or labouring a point and both DH and DS are asking me what's wrong, but honestly, I'd rather stick to neutral topics like the weather or what we're having for dinner instead of saying something that upsets anyone.
I am not a very confident person and tend to avoid creating a scene, sometimes to my detriment. I tend to stay quiet and then seethe 😂 but I have always felt i could discuss my thoughts with DH. Lately, I dont feel I can, yet when I dont have much to say, DH asks me over and over what's wrong? I reply that nothing is wrong, but he still asks.
I'm so careful not to say anything 'nasty' or 'rude' that chatting to my family has begun to feel like hard work, thinking of everything I'm going to say and how it sounds to the other person, whether I'd say it outside of my house, how it will be construed by the listener.
I dont know whether I'm coming or going anymore.
I'm beginning to feel like a weak minded gossiping bitch who is negative most of the time, although I try so hard to be positive every day.
I make sure that I say lots of positive things to DH and DS every day, but they generally reply with sarcasm or negativity to me, or at least that's how it seems to me.

Earlier DS was making a model with Lego, and I mentioned how amazing it was as i walked past. DS replied that it wasnt very good, so I gently disagreed and said I thought it was great, to which DS replied " You've made your point, now just leave it!"
I cant seem to do right for doing wrong.
AIBU to be so upset?
And how do I change this dynamic?

Your husband is a twat, and he doesn't sound like a great parent either. No man is worth walking on eggshells in your own home. Your son needs to be told to get over himself.

@Whyhello

Your DH is a dick and your DS is mimicking his behaviour. He’s overly critical of very normal things, it’s definitely normal to complain about people behind their back and I’d argue we all do it.

I think you are right. There are times I feel quite intimidated by DH, when he speaks to me in a critical way, almost patronising. Of course, he wouldn't agree he speaks to me like this at all, he would say he is just trying to find a mutually agreeable solution for the sake of family harmony. I already feel stronger.

I already feel stronger.
Good!

@giletrouge

Judith0000 well done. Small beginnings. Further response to your DS could be that you are only saying what you think too, and if he doesn't like it maybe he has a problem? Or some such. You sound a bit stronger. I really feel for you. Keep at it - we're here, we'll cheer you on. Have a lovely day now - do something nice for you. You really deserve it.

I must admit, I found it quite ironic that I have been berated for saying what I think, yet DS feels he can say whatever he thinks, however rude, yet for some reason, neither DH or DS think I have that privilege too. I really believe it's because they both view me as the weakest person, and possibly not entitled to the same respect as they are.

grapewine
You have echoed what I believe inside. Thank you. It is good to know INBU to ask for the same consideration I ask them for. That means a lot to me.

Well done OP. You need to start taking back control and not be undermined in your own house.

A self help book might be a good start or even counselling to unpick your thoughts and to help you with healthy boundaries.

@Judith0000

grapewine You have echoed what I believe inside. Thank you. It is good to know INBU to ask for the same consideration I ask them for. That means a lot to me.

You're not unreasonable in the slightest. They do see you as weak. Show them otherwise. Keep posting if it helps. People will tell you you deserve better. You do.

Oh what bollocks, of course we don't say things to people's faces all the time that were thinking or might say to others we're "intimate" with.

Everyone does that all the time.

He's setting himself up on a pedestal and being judged and self righteous and patronising. And I bet he does the sane or yes end up with no friends a d shit relationships with most people.

He's full of shit.

He seems to like telling you off and talking down to you
I've skim read the thread big if sounds like it's part of a wider attitude and now your son's being influenced by it too.

You're going to need strong techniques to deal with these too. Grey rock being one of them.

Not that you should have to deal with it from your h ... Getting rid of him sounds preferable 😉.

Well done OP!

Have you ever sat down and thought that you may have just swapped on abusive household for another.
It’s extremely common.

As if you're going to say on another person's house, who happens to be a golf addict, "change the TV over gold addict, I don't want to watch it or hear it in the background!" or "don't be an asshole and wear that dress, you're being totally inappropriate"to someone insisting on wearing white as a wedding guest .. you tried politely to dissuade her, she wasn't to be dissuaded; you'd be fighting with everyone constantly if you did what he's suggesting ... Oh but is he only suggesting you should never say a word about it after to anyone , even if you're just explaining why eg you were glad the party stayed in the garden. Of course peolle day what they really think of feel about stuff like this to their nearest and dearest (he doesn't really qualify for dearest to be fair).
It's totally normal. He's being an absolute twat. Sounds like he just likes pretexts to put you down.

Your DH has appointed himself as the thought police and king of his little castle, and he wants to monopolise and commandeer every part of your independent mind until you are stripped of your personality and character and there is nothing left but a husk.

I'd still consider getting away for a few days if I were you.
Do you have access to money ?

Sounds like you're damned if you do say something and damned if you don't!

Of course we confide to close family about all sorts we don't need to say to people in real life. He's weird to think otherwise and basically HE sounds like the oversensitive one - gaslighting much?

14 year old boys are complicated so I'd certainly tell him not to be rude but largely ignore his grumpiness.

And "You're as bad as each other" is a bloody stupid thing for your mother to say.

Not sure what the answer is but you don't sound very appreciated one way or another and being told off constantly must be wearing.

It really has helped enormously posting on here. You are all so understanding and kind.
I always thought of a family as the people you could be yourself with. There are many things I may think but wouldn't say, because I wouldn't want to hurt someone's feelings, and I've never understood why I would share an opinion of mine if it would upset someone. After all, it is just my opinion, my opinion isn't law .

I do have my own income but I'm not sure it would stretch to a weekend away.
I suppose it's quite possible I have swapped one abusive family for another.
My method of dealing with people who are abusive has always been to avoid them where possible, I flee from conflict.
Not so easy when you live in the same house.
Can anyone tell me anymore about the grey rock method please?

To the poster who mentioned DH's friends, he doesnt really have any, he says he doesnt much care for friends, although he is far more likely than me to be direct with people instead of 'pussyfooting' around as he says I do. People appear to respect him more, for being direct and not hinting.
He says I'm being unfair on people by not being direct, and I suppose in some ways, he is right. No one really knows where they stand or what I'm really thinking because I spend so much energy avoiding the possibility of a conflict and find myself being ultra compliant.
Then I get upset when people walk all over me, so I take responsibility for that and must take steps to address this, although I'm not really sure where to start.

I think I do 'pussyfoot' around simply because I am trying to prevent myself being verbally attacked, but ime, It seems to work in a counterproductive way and I seem to get more than my 'fair share' of putdowns and criticism.

I wonder if people who go to such lengths to be amiable at all times are actually more likely to be admonished more severely as soon as they step a toe out of line by standing up for themselves?

It is indeed very wearing. I worry a lot of the time of the impact I'm having on others.
DH doesnt worry in the same way.

I'm sorry I'm not responding to individual posts, I thought it might be better to try to answer to lots of you in one post?

@MumofTeens2021

Sounds like you're damned if you do say something and damned if you don't!

Of course we confide to close family about all sorts we don't need to say to people in real life. He's weird to think otherwise and basically HE sounds like the oversensitive one - gaslighting much?

14 year old boys are complicated so I'd certainly tell him not to be rude but largely ignore his grumpiness.

And "You're as bad as each other" is a bloody stupid thing for your mother to say.

Not sure what the answer is but you don't sound very appreciated one way or another and being told off constantly must be wearing.

I dont think my mother thought of the impact it would have when she said it, but I agree, it was a silly thing to say, because it seems DS has taken it as DS and I are equal, not a parent and child, and he has held onto this. Being told off constantly is very wearing. I dont tend to wear my heart on my sleeve, but lately, I have found when DH turns the situation around onto me, there are times, like yesterday for example, when I cant speak because my throat closes up and I know if I speak to defend myself, i will cry. I have never been one to get emotional but it seems to be something I'm struggling to control, so I dont speak because I absolutely dont want to cry in front of DH and DS.

Similarly, last time I saw my sister, I couldn't look her in the eye, I felt too uncomfortable.

I'm frustrated at myself for being such a pushover!!

Please stop beating yourself up. You are not a pushover. You have been abused and your natural instinct is to shut down and minimise the abuse.
That is perfectly sensible and reasonable.

The fact that your husband has no friends speaks volumes. And I can tell you fact that it’s highly likely very few people respect him. They probably feel relieved they don’t have to live with him day in day out.

I agree with others that your son has learned his behaviour from his father, to him it’s totally normal.

I think the best thing for you to do now, would be to try and see a therapist on your own. Try and unravel all of these familial dynamics. I think it might give you some strength to be able to see that this is not normal and this is harming you. And you don’t deserve it. It’s not happening because you are weak. No one is born weak.

I really hope you can get some real life help with this, because you seem like a lovely kind person. And you deserve not to be treated like this

I sympathise very strongly with your position OP. In my experience people are terribly unfair as they want you to be clear with them about exactly what is going in in your head, but at the same time they get terribly upset and defensive if your opinions/feelings are not the opinions/feelings they wanted you to have. Essentially you're only allowed to speak freely if you plan to say something they agree with.

I find myself saying 'I am not being unreasonable' and looking my family straight in the eye a lot....

@AFS1

I’m sorry to say that your husband sounds like a dick and your son is copying his behaviour.

100% this. Xx

You sound exceptionally clever and thoughtful, OP, as well as very lovely. Please don't beat yourself up. Like many here I've also been the target of 'speak your mind!' demands and then admonished for doing so. I agree with PP that those who prioritise their own views enough to unquestioningly express them, and require everyone else to do the same, are often bullies or have these tendencies. I think of it as a game you simply can't win - either you don't express your opinion enough, or you do and it's not the 'right' one, or not expressed in the 'right' way (as in your DH saying 'you've made your point'. The cheek!!!!)

I hope you keep growing stronger and posting on here, too, if you find it helpful. You have an army of admirers

@Taliskerskye

Please stop beating yourself up. You are not a pushover. You have been abused and your natural instinct is to shut down and minimise the abuse. That is perfectly sensible and reasonable.

The fact that your husband has no friends speaks volumes. And I can tell you fact that it’s highly likely very few people respect him. They probably feel relieved they don’t have to live with him day in day out.

I agree with others that your son has learned his behaviour from his father, to him it’s totally normal.

I think the best thing for you to do now, would be to try and see a therapist on your own. Try and unravel all of these familial dynamics. I think it might give you some strength to be able to see that this is not normal and this is harming you. And you don’t deserve it. It’s not happening because you are weak. No one is born weak.

I really hope you can get some real life help with this, because you seem like a lovely kind person. And you deserve not to be treated like this

Therapy sounds like a good idea, I really need to look into it. I wasnt always so intent on a peaceful life at any cost. When I was growing up, my sister and I didnt get along. We have completely different values and dont share much common ground except for our shared history. However, I was much more confident and her accusations and humiliation of me in front of friends washed over me quite quickly. We would argue a lot and sometimes we would fight, but I wouldn't run away, I would stand up for myself. Even then, I dont think I was a fighter, but I wouldn't allow her to bully me either and she didnt like that at all. She has always looked for ways to demonstrate her superiority over me and this has continued into our adult relationship. (I'm younger than her btw.) As the years have gone on, I seemed to run out of steam and it just seemed easier to agree or avoid the inevitable conflict that being in a relationship like the one we had would attract.

Now I've written that down, it almost seems inevitable that I would choose to marry someone who, at first glance, stood up to my family and didnt allow them to mistreat me, but now I find I am living with the mistreatment, so I will definitely look into therapy, because i am not without responsibility, I know that, I have allowed this to get this far.

@Immunetypegoblin

I sympathise very strongly with your position OP. In my experience people are terribly unfair as they want you to be clear with them about exactly what is going in in your head, but at the same time they get terribly upset and defensive if your opinions/feelings are not the opinions/feelings they wanted you to have. Essentially you're only allowed to speak freely if you plan to say something they agree with.

I find myself saying 'I am not being unreasonable' and looking my family straight in the eye a lot....

This makes so much sense to me.

@SuperJune

You sound exceptionally clever and thoughtful, OP, as well as very lovely. Please don't beat yourself up. Like many here I've also been the target of 'speak your mind!' demands and then admonished for doing so. I agree with PP that those who prioritise their own views enough to unquestioningly express them, and require everyone else to do the same, are often bullies or have these tendencies. I think of it as a game you simply can't win - either you don't express your opinion enough, or you do and it's not the 'right' one, or not expressed in the 'right' way (as in your DH saying 'you've made your point'. The cheek!!!!)

I hope you keep growing stronger and posting on here, too, if you find it helpful. You have an army of admirers

Thank you for your support. It means a lot to me. I understand what you mean when you say you think of it as a game you simply cant win. My trouble is I believe that if only I said or did the right things, so effectively winning, I would avoid the conflict, hence why I simply agree with what's being said or remain quiet. However, you are right that there isn't a way to 'win' because this method isn't sufficient enough to stop the unkindness or to invite people to show me any respect.

If there is no way to 'win', and appease those types of people, what is the answer?

I avoid going to my sisters unless I'm invited specifically, but when you are silenced in your own home, it is much more difficult.

However, I am taking on board the advice on this thread and it is proving invaluable!!
I cannot thank you all enough.
I know I will find it very challenging to put it into practice but I am already feeling much more positive in myself.

OP when I was much younger I had a boyfriend who got very frustrated that I was bad at saying no to people and always tried to please everyone. In the end. I split up with him, and he wanted us to stay together. I still remember the bemused look on his face and his "when I said you needed to learn to say no to people, I didn't mean to me!" It was very satisfying.

@anunexaminedlife

Your DH has appointed himself as the thought police and king of his little castle, and he wants to monopolise and commandeer every part of your independent mind until you are stripped of your personality and character and there is nothing left but a husk.

Yep, with bells on. Like another PP said, it doesn't actually matter what he picks at you about. You could have said something innocuous like, "Oh I preferred the wallpaper they had before" and he'd have used that as an excuse to prove what a wise and magnificent man he is.

And then they're pestering you wondering why you don't want to speak to them? I'd have snapped, "Why'd you bloody think!" by now, I think.