Elderly Neighbour

[MsFannySqueers]

A bit of background to my AIBU. My DH and I are in our sixties. For the past ten years we have cared for our very elderly parents until their eventual deaths.We did all of this willingly, but unfortunately we did miss out on holidays and the freedom to make any spontaneous plans during this time. My DM our one remaining parent, died a short while ago.She was nearly 90 and passed away peacefully. We were and are obviously very sad but felt that at least this was the end of our caring responsibilities. We planned to visit friends and family and take holidays when allowed.
Anyway an elderly neighbour called us two days after my DM’s funeral. She is in her 80’s. We have helped her during the pandemic with some shopping and taking her for her COVID jabs. Prior to the pandemic she would occasionally ask us for a lift somewhere as she doesn’t drive.
She has always appeared to be fairly fit and active. My neighbour then told me that she has recently been diagnosed with a new medical condition. It luckily doesn’t sound to be serious. She has asked that I go with her to see a consultant at our local hospital. She has no family of her own nearby.I am sorry to say my heart just sank. I just can’t bear the thoughts of yet more hospital visits.This visit to the consultant is unlikely to be a one off. I said that if I was free on that particular date I may be able to take her. She doesn’t yet have a date for the appointment. We do have fairly good public transport links and taxi availability where we live. In addition some of the elderly in the area use Patient Transport for hospital appointments.
AIBU in not wanting to attend this appointment with her? Awful as it sounds I fear this will lead to more and more requests for help. My DH agrees that we just haven’t got anymore to give either mentally or physically to caring for another elderly person. I just feel so bad for thinking like this and not wanting to be tied to another elderly person.

my heart just sank

There you have your answer.

In your shoes, having done your bit towards your responsibilities caring for family, I would feel absolutely no guilt at all in saying that you are very sorry but that it won't be possible. If you don't want to leave it there, saying you can't face hospitals given what you have been through would be the way to do.

If you really want to, you might signpost to some volunteer organisations who might be able to help. Having a list of suggested contacts ready to hand over would also be a good way to make clear that you not taking on finding something.

In our village, there is an umbrella organisation to coordinate volunteers and those looking for support. The volunteers vastly outnumber those prepared to ask for help. There will be people out there keen to help. You should not just be the default carer because you have already cared and are the first person she thought of.

The really key thing is not to feel in any way that this is your responsibility. Easier said than done, though it will be better to have clear and consistent boundaries and can be clear that you cannot help, so that the way is clear for those who do want to help

It really is not your problem. Enjoy your well earned time to enjoy yourselves.

@PerkingFaintly

YANB even the teeniest bit U.

Indeed, if you do want to be helpful there are so many parts of "keeping an eye on a vulnerable neighbour" which would be much more appropriate for you – just the noticing that milk bottles haven't been taken in or the blinds gone up. That sort of monitoring would be expensive for them to buy in, and might be very low effort on your part.

Taxi-ing people around? There's already a profession which takes care of that: taxi drivers! This is one of the things they are for! And if your neighbour can't afford taxis then buses, patient transport, etc...

Save your energy for the intangible "noticing" that won't be needed... till it's needed.

That's if you want to do anything at all. You're absolutely not obliged to.

I say all the above as a vulnerable person myself. I'm extremely grateful when my neighbours offer to help with anything, but I absolutely do not expect it, and I sort out my own paid cleaners, gardeners, tradesmen, etc. It's not easy for me to afford at the moment, but that doesn't magically make it my neighbour's problem.

This. If your plans in old age mean staying in your own home vs sheltered accommodation/home then you have to be prepared and have the money saved to buy in help. I wouldn’t even expect family to do grunge stuff . And for personal emotional support, she needs to call on her family and friends - they are the ones emotionally connected with her, not the op. Don’t even hesitate to say no' if you go once the medical teams will think she is close friends and will expect you to step in as informal carer.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression that no one talks to me at all. I have friends and family at a distance, and lovely neighbours who chat on the step and offer to help on occasion.

I really appreciate them, and couldn't ask for better.

But it's the sort of thing the OP says she's already been doing for her neighbour, like picking up my shopping with theirs (Click & Collect is a wonderful thing.)

I'm not going to ask for much more. They have their own lives and jobs and children... and indeed their own elderly parents.

Oh that was to Tootsey and a general comment, not a response to April.

This is the difference between how men and women are brought up. Your husband doesn't feel bad about this situation but you do. It's social conditioning. You've nothing to feel bad about. She's not your responsibility. She has other options. It's about her taking the easiest option for herself and using you for moral support. She's been quite rude asking you about this two days after your mother's death! You're grieving, her drama is not serious. She's fit and active so she will have some friends? She can ask one of them to accompany her for support. If she has no friends then she should have made some, no excuses if she's not housebound. Don't feel obligated. I wouldn't have indulged the conversation TBH I'd have said something like "not sure if you're aware, but my mother died two days ago and I'm grieving, so can we talk about your health some other time? Hope you feel better soon." and extricated myself from the conversation.

@cptartapp

It will lead to more input. No doubt about it. I can't believe all your parents let you put your lives on hold and miss out on so much. They were happy for you both to do that for ten years?! Your neighbour has a choice how to plan for her old age knowing she has no family. She has chosen not to learn to drive, not to downsize, not to move. Now she will live her life as a result of her choices. IME she'll lean more heavily on you as as she ages . Many older people have enough cash to pay for support services but don't like to start spending what they've 'scrimped and saved' for. It's easier to see what you can get for free despite the inconvenience to others. PIL Trawled up and down the street looking for a lift to hospital despite sitting on hundreds of thousands. Embarrassing. Emergencies aside. Don't get involved.

This is true.

I know of a lovely neighbour who was helping out another neighbour but suddenly felt she was being imposed upon as her children were nowhere to be seen. She pulled back and passed on the names of some excellent paid services.....neighbours family appeared, furious that she was encouraging strangers into her home AKA paid services more like.

Also I have come across friends whose parents were "appalled" at the idea of having to pay for anything when they had several children, ( and plenty of money) that should do everything for them.

One friend whose parents who would never so much as step in with emergency care, suddenly expected her to be at THEIR beck and call.
She put them very straight on that score, that like them "it wasn't going to be possible".
They now pay for all their care and helpers just like my friend did.
She spent a huge amount of time being looked after by her grandparents even though her mother never worked, so it stuck in her craw, to put it mildly.

OP, you sound completely and utterly worn out.

Do not get involved as I think you could be putting your own health at risk.
Providing local numbers is a great idea.

If it was me Iwould make sure she was aware of patient transport, which as far as I am aware, is something she should ask her GP to access for her. It should then be offered for all her hospital appointments. You sound lovely OP, and I am sorry about your Mum.

The fact that you've just lost your mum is reason alone to not be able to help this lady out. You have nothing left to give and need time to recover. She will ask one of her other friends and someone with more time to commit will do it. Don't feel bad about it at all. You've done your bit.

I wouldn't even provide local numbers, signpost or any of that. Straight up female social conditioning and gives ingress to get you to do it anyway 'I called them and they can't take me' 'I can't get an appointment for them to take that day' etc etc.

What cptartapp said is spot on. Do not engage at all and stop feeling guilty about it.

What Amber said is also spot on.

@Roussette

What selfish children there are for some of these elderly people.... I would worry at being the one to set up appointments for transport, Age UK etc as they will have your number as a point of contact. It is her children that should be doing this, not you.

I too have had years of looking after elderly parents, it nearly broke me at times, I would just not do this for a NDN if they have children who should be stepping up.

Having said all that, I volunteer with Age UK but that is my choice and I can stop at any time.

@Rousette you can't criticise the children, you don't know what their relationship with their mum is like.

My dh has a very complicated relationship with his mum, including emotional neglect as a child/teenager. She has never lifted a finger to help us - I was admitted to hospital during my 2nd pregnancy and had no-one to look after ds1 on the two days a week he wasn't at the childminder. She refused to come and stay as it was "too difficult. She was physically healthy, in her early 60s and retired. It would have been for a maximum of 2 weeks. That was 23 years ago and I said at the time that I accepted She didn't want to help us out in a crisis but that in return we wouldn't be helping her out in future. She is now in her 80s and quite frail. She moved to the other side of the country 20+ years ago so is a 5 hour drive away. If she wants dh to attend a hospital appointment he would have to take 2 days off work to do so. And why should he when she wouldn't do it for us?

There are all sorts of reasons why the children of elderly people can't or won't step up.

OP, you don't need to feel bad about this. As others have suggested, you need to prioritise yourself. Your neighbour can get a taxi there and take a friend with her.

Oh gosh you have absolutely no obligation to do anything for her. If you are feeling generous you could perhaps research a local charity that might offer companionship for the elderly?

Don't get sucked in or feel guilted into taking on any caring or support roles. If she needs help that's down to the NHS and social care. It's a slippery slope from 'just one appointment' 'just a lift for a neighbour' 'helping out' to being at her beck and call 24/7. She's not your problem.

You've done more than most would do in a lifetime so it's time for you to put yourselves first.

@EmmaGrundyForPM

I stand by what I say. I understand your POV, but is it fair that a neighbour who is not a blood relative and who has no connection with the elderly person, and who lost her Mum two days previously, should undertake this instead?

I don't think so.

Of course your DH shouldn't be driving round trip of 5 hours to a hospital appointment but should it be a neighbour trying to sort transport for this, or him?
Arrangements can be made at a distance.

It's just not fair to leave it to the goodwill of others who happen to be geographically close (like next door!) but may be going through their own problems, like grieving the death of a mother.

Not unkind at all. This is your time now, and DHs before you get old. Enjoy it

Sorry, Emma that was probably unnecessarily harsh. I really didn't mean it to be. I had a difficult relationship with my DPs, so do understand more than my post is letting on.

Bottom line... the OP has to say no, not easy, but the only option.

A work colleague of mine (now in her mid-50s), as a newly wed in her late 20s, moved in next door to a married couple who were then about 50.
Colleague had a nice decade or so with the friendly older neighbours, who were childless, but then Mrs Neighbour died...
Then gradually, over the next 15 years or so, colleague gradually took on more and more caring duties for Mr Neighbour, including, very reluctantly, agreeing to be his medical next of kin...
The last couple of years of Mr Neighbours life were very taxing on Colleague... But when he died, it was discovered he'd left her his house and all his money! She was never in it for the money, but it felt like a nice thank you.

@Roussette

Sorry, Emma that was probably unnecessarily harsh. I really didn't mean it to be. I had a difficult relationship with my DPs, so do understand more than my post is letting on.

Bottom line... the OP has to say no, not easy, but the only option.

@Roussette, thank you, apology accepted. Yes, totally agree that it shouldn't be a neighbour, I certainly didn't say the OP should do it. In my MIL's case none of the neighbours will have anything to do with her as she has been so vile to them over the years!

It's very difficult but this lady has had years in which she could have made plans for herself, instead she has abandoned herself to the mercy of others

There’s an old saying “be careful what you take on, because today’s favour becomes tomorrow’s duty”. Very true.

Anyway an elderly neighbour called us two days after my DM’s funeral
In her mind the fact that there was a funeral means that there is now a vacancy which she can occupy

'In her mind the fact that there was a funeral means that there is now a vacancy which she can occupy'

Or, perhaps it's crossed wires and the neighbour mistook the ops previous offers of help as an ongoing offer.

The op just needs to say sorry I can't I'm busy and I'm sure that will be that.

I have gone back to full time work to avoid being at my Mum's beck and call for everything. I did all her shopping (pre going back) during the pandemic, made sure she had what she needed, and I still go over every fortnight to change her bed and do her bins for her. However, she does tend to phone, tell me there is an issue and then expect dh and I to sort it for her. Going back to work was the easiest option to avoid becoming her dogsbody.

You sound like a really lovely person op

You are not unreasonable at all. The more you do, the more that will be expected from you. You'll have to say you're busy that date, every time. Suggest a taxi. If she's really struggling then she needs to start thinking, of going into a home. Otherwise you're going to end up caring for yet another person, and have no life of your own. Dont feel bad, she isn't family. She has family of her own who could pay for support, or arrange alternative care. The more you do, the less they'll realise how much help she really needs. Make yourself busy.

I’d be wary of saying your not available for one appointment, what if she rearranged it.I think you have to be honest and you really don’t want to supply that level of care. I’m sure she will understand, it’s a lot to ask.

OP, You are not being unreasonable. It is a big responsibility (as you know) to take on this level of care. I say this as some who did agree to be this type of resource to my NDNs.

I actually don’t regret my decision, and am happy to do it, but wouldn’t necessarily do it for anyone else. My NDN legitimately don’t have any other family, and they have planned carefully for their later years, including a fully accessible house, funds for their care, and making the decision last year to move from the house next door into an independent living community which has step care (skilled nursing, memory care, and end of life hospice) after both had had strokes.

I will also be remotely doing the same for my parents sooner than later and I’ve offered the same to my aunt and uncle who don’t have kids.

I’m up front though, in that if they want my help, they either prepare for services that I’ll arrange and they pay for or they move close to me. My husband and are planning to move in about 7 years and won’t put that on hold. Everyone understands this as well. Our NDNs joke that gives them plenty of time to die. Now what actually happens in 7 years, who knows.

It really does make you think and plan for the future and I strive to as well prepared as my NDN who I truly do consider family. But yeah, it’s not something I would consider lightly.