To wonder why the government don't increase taxes to fund the NHS better?

[Smolgoose]

From a lot of threads on here recently about lack of being able to access healthcare, and my own anecdotal experiences, it seems like the NHS is in a worse crisis than ever, and not able to cope with the demands upon it.

This thread is definately not about individual NHS staff, but about the whole system generally.

Why don't the government increase taxation to increase NHS funding? It wouldn't solve some issues such as the shortage of staff, but funding could be also funneled into increasing the number of people trained.

A lot of people think we are heading down a privitisation route, but as far as I know the government have not yet floated the idea of changing free at the point of service.

Because over the last decade people have consistently voted for lower taxes and shit public services (i.e. voting Tory).

Because nobody wants to pay more tax.

Because people are short sighted and won't vote for a party that will increase taxes.

Personally I'd be happy to pay more tax if it went into a well managed NHS or education. But a lot of people out there don't think like that and want to pay as little tax as possible.

And when Labour were in power they overspent on other areas rather than choosing to fund the NHS properly so it is not only a Tory issue. Even when the Liberals specifically had in their mandate that an extra 1p would be added to tax and ringfenced specifically for education that didn't get them anywhere.

I think if it came straight down to privatisation -v- an extra couple of pence tax ringfenced for NHS there will still be people who would complain.

Generally people don’t want to pay more taxes.

And of the ones who would, there tends to be skepticism about whether increased taxes would actually be spent on the NHS.

Nobody trusts the political parties claims... for an obvious example, look at the Brexit bus/more money for our NHS rubbish.

I would happily pay more tax, especially if it was for example a ring fenced healthcare specific tax. But then I doubt any government would want to do this as it would give people more of an understanding that the NHS isn't free. Just paid for via tax, and people would be more likely to hold the government to account for underfunding and failings

I always wonder how much more would need to be spent before we saw a noticeable change in service - eg shorter waiting lists, better salaries for staff, more staff etc. When they do spend it all seems to be on CapEx projects (which I know are also needed) while the actual service and staff are on their knees.

Although the Conservatives have increased VAT several times, and some stealth personal taxes, the marginal rate of income tax has been consistently reduced, and so the party will not want to break that one promise in their election manifesto. Even though most of the others probably will be.

I pay enough taxes, thanks. There’s plenty for the nhs, the governments just pissing it up against a wall.

I would happily pay more tax if I knew it was being spent exactly where it was needed.

The NHS wasts vast sums of money and no one is held accountable,it needs a complete overhaul.

I think this is about WHERE our tax money goes rather than more and more so it can help the NHS.

Money is spent very badly and as mentioned by @HeyDemonsItsYaGirl - it's also about who you vote for.

I would happily pay more tax

How much more? Which tax, income, vat, wealth?

How much does it need to increase by annually?

The NHS has a huge amount of money and no intention of channelling it into the staff that are needed.

Wait and see, when they get more from selling our data, patient care still won't improve.

I don’t want to pay more tax for an unsustainable healthcare model. There are models which are more efficient and have better outcomes, which don’t involve full privatisation.

The main problem with the NHS is the ageing population. The average cost of providing healthcare to an 80 or 90 year old is vastly higher than the average cost of a younger person, and there are now many more 80/90 year olds than there used to be a couple of decades ago.

It's honestly not as simple as raising taxes - unless you mean raising them a lot.

OP, how many more billions dumped into the NHS would make you happy?

Is the NHS efficient? No. And until it is, any additional money would be wasted.

Sadly, until there can be a grown up discussion about the NHS, change will not happen.

I don't want to pay more tax for the NHS, thanks, and it already gets vast amounts of funding.

I do agree that the NHS isn't the only viable system, other European countries appear to have systems with better outcomes, however restructuring to be more like those doesn't seem to even be an option on the table with our current government lt.

Also countries such as Germany and France do have higher taxes than us (although correct me if I'm wrong on this)

Restructuring the NHS isn’t likely to be on the table for any government regardless of political colour because as soon as any politician mentions it, they’re immediately accused of wanting full privatisation / a US style healthcare model / for all poor people to die on the streets of their ailments.

There's nothing to stop all the people who say they would be happy to pay more tax from making extra payments to the state. It can't be taken as direct taxation but you can make ad hoc voluntary contributions to the reduction of national debt, which in turn would free up money to be spent in other areas.

A quick scan of Google suggests that this is not a very popular activity, 200 such donations being made in the period 2000 to 2017. Many of them Mumsnet posters, no doubt.

Looking at what I pay in tax each year, I certainly don't want to pay anymore, especially if it's ring fenced for something that isn't fit for purpose.

@ComtesseDeSpair

Restructuring the NHS isn’t likely to be on the table for any government regardless of political colour because as soon as any politician mentions it, they’re immediately accused of wanting full privatisation / a US style healthcare model / for all poor people to die on the streets of their ailments.

This baffles me

There are communications strategists selling all sorts

They could certainly sell this

I think all governments just want the NHS to be a huge inefficient employer because it ticks other boxes and creates lots of strategy and IT jobs for their mates.

@oystercatcher44

Because nobody wants to pay more tax.

Plenty of us would happily pay more tax for functional public services.

@Smolgoose

I do agree that the NHS isn't the only viable system, other European countries appear to have systems with better outcomes, however restructuring to be more like those doesn't seem to even be an option on the table with our current government lt.

Also countries such as Germany and France do have higher taxes than us (although correct me if I'm wrong on this)

That's because as soon as you have anyone wanting to open up a debate about healthcare insurance or some other way of funding the healthcare system, you get shouty left-wingers screaming about AMERICAN STYLE HEALTHCARE and PRIVATISATION.

Impossible to have a reasoned debate. For many, the NHS is a sacred cow which shall not be criticised, ever. And neither shall the staff, who are saints on earth, every single one of them.