To wonder why the government don't increase taxes to fund the NHS better?

[Smolgoose]

From a lot of threads on here recently about lack of being able to access healthcare, and my own anecdotal experiences, it seems like the NHS is in a worse crisis than ever, and not able to cope with the demands upon it.

This thread is definately not about individual NHS staff, but about the whole system generally.

Why don't the government increase taxation to increase NHS funding? It wouldn't solve some issues such as the shortage of staff, but funding could be also funneled into increasing the number of people trained.

A lot of people think we are heading down a privitisation route, but as far as I know the government have not yet floated the idea of changing free at the point of service.

Maybe that needs to be looked at?! How can at slim down the bill to the tax payer so the majority goes where it is actually needed

you’re picking at tiny things here. The UK underfunds its public sector and the cost was seen during COVID. Look how things fell apart. While I wholly disapprove of MPs getting more expenses and Boris wanking money on wallpaper, I don’t think they’re the problem here.

always some stories ready to pop up and claim, with no evidence whatsoever, that the NHS is inefficient. It's currently running a very successful vaccination programme so got to say something more to try and undermine it, besides starving it of cash and imposing lots of daft instructions on it. We need LESS intervention by an incompetent government, not more of it.

My MP is not worth 2p a day, he does sod all for his constituents and cant be bothered with any of them who have less than a couple of million. His salary is really throwing good money after bad but they vote for a pig in a blue rosette whatever it does. Anyone remember the duck house, that really was a proper use of tax payers money, wasnt it.

37 billion to track and trace and most of the time it's tracking and tracing the people in your household, then saying how well it has done.

NHS procurement got a mention - that worked so well the government took it over and had insufficient PPE going into a pandemic. Then they used their inefficient mates to get unsafe stuff www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52569364 To try and hide how amazingly incompetent the private sector is they fiddle the figures wherever they can - like counting a pair of gloves as 2 items of PPE.

Any independent research concludes public funding of health care is more efficient but the stories lies are believed because people want to believe they can get a Rolls Royce for the price of a mini. You cant. We spend less on health care than most developed countries and get more than we pay for.

I vote for higher taxes. Last year we donated significant sums to fund PPE when schools, universities and out of work theatre staff were all pulling together to make up for an incompetent government. Now I'm donating to charities that support NHS staff, better than donating to a government who wouldnt have such a massive national debt if they hadnt screwed up over and over again. No donation made to this government would go to the NHS.

nocoolnamesleft
So we’re would another government get the extra money from ? What other services would they take money from to give to the NHS, how much money PA is enough for the NHS

Oldsu
This is we’re I got my facts from

Look at Denmark. Happy people, low depression levels, high taxes, excellent health care.

UK - high incidence of addiction, suicide, sick leave, obesity, illness. Strain on the NHS, social services and schools.

Part of the country already pay 10% more tax than everyone else (student loans). So its going to be a tough ask tbh.

LemonSwan
If they earn enough

I've made suggestions on here before for where the government could get money from easily. Some have been implemented but the NHS didnt get the cash, it went on bigger MPs salaries, Boris's flat (yes, some of it was public money and all would have been except Boris got caught out), media briefing room that wasnt being used last time I bothered to care www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56295191, Dominic Cummings pay rise www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/15/dominic-cummings-received-40000-payrise-while-at-no-10

and other such delights from an incompetent government.

Spending other people’s money is easy. The problem is, it’s never enough and it always runs out.

Threshold for repaying student loans is around 27k and they pay 9% of income over that amount. Everyone seems happy enough for students who had no choice but to take loans to pay a high marginal rate over that threshold. Take an additional 9% off everyone else who doesn’t have/ had a student loan that at least equals the tutition fee plus minimum maintenance loan (3 years worth) - with a claw back that equals this amount of student debt plus compound that at 4% per annum plus rpi. After 30 years waive any balance.

9% over the threshold shouldn’t be too much as we’ve just accepted that this marginal rate for our graduating students is perfectly fine.

Allow the government to vary the repayment terms at their will - so if they aren’t getting enough they can reduce the threshold or extend the term - which they can do today to students

Well you get misuse of public funds everywhere in the world and public spending is always subject to short term political whims. Plus taxation is a pretty blunt instrument for targeted contributions. Depending on where wealth sits it may not be caught by tax at all and the lowest income deciles pay more tax proportionate to income than the highest, when you take all taxes including Vat and local tax into account. So I don't think it's an appropriate or efficient way to find extra money for healthcare.

@Sirius99

Oldsu This is we’re I got my facts from

Yes it says 60 and over people over 60 are not pensioners, they are working age until they reach state pension age currently 66, which is what I pointed out, the 60 bit is a remnant of the times when women reached pension age at 60, and due to the age discrimination act, men who reached the same age but couldn't get their pensions until age 65 where given some concessions to make them equal with women, that included being able to claim pension credit, being able to get a bus pass and of course being able to get free prescriptions - those days are long gone.

The best way to raise more money is to actually make sure that tax is paid when it should be. That would increase tax income by something like 5%. Amazon doesnt pay fair tax, we should increase that. We have low property taxes - we need to increase taxes on empty homes and homes not occupied all year.

Increase taxes when the cost of commodities like housing and power and essential goods are sky high due to artificial inflation/bubbles and high taxes, yeah, that's going to work.

A big problem is the sacred cow mentality regarding the NHS and expecting it to cover everything, not just the basics, like a bank 'Well, I paid in so I should get out'.

The social care, well, that's what happens when you increase life expectancy. Ditto having to increase retirement ages, it was never meant to equal 30+ years of economic inactivity in comfort.

Because many people already pay very high tax and the more you earn the more you pay. Tax people too much and they’ll move their money abroad or emigrate.

If nearly half of your earnings are taken away as tax, or over half, would you really be happy to pay extra tax on top? Wouldn’t you rather use the spare to pay for private healthcare for you and your family?

I think the NHS has huge management and leadership problems, areas of it just drain money, and so many NHS work environments become toxic so staff don’t stay. Pouring more money from hard working taxpayers into it won’t solve those problems.

Wouldn’t you rather use the spare to pay for private healthcare for you and your family?

Personally, no. Because the more people who do that, the worse the NHS will get. And private healthcare cherry picks simple conditions. If you’re very sick it’s back to the NHS.

The nhs isn’t underfunded it’s over consumed

I would not agree with paying more tax to find it in its current form no

Happy to pay more tax for the NHS after it stops leaking money like a colander via various entrenched spending methods that equate to madness. I don't blame 'The' Govt, so many Govts have papered over the cracks we seem to completely define ourselves by the NHS.

Good thing that the NHS is, it doesn't need to function like an all-consuming beast.

the more people who do that, the worse the NHS will get. And private healthcare cherry picks simple conditions

Wouldn’t it relieve pressure on the NHS if those who can afford private healthcare cover get it, only using the NHS in emergencies so freeing up GP appointments, surgery slots etc?

A lot of private sector jobs come with healthcare insurance.

I’ve had fairly complex surgery privately, I was very happy with it and meant I could function again instead of waiting a year on NHS lists. It was scheduled for 4 weeks after my appointment with the consultant.

The NHS just need to value frugality and spend what they have more wisely.

Or start charging people who call out ambulances for ridiculous reasons!

Well ambulances don't attend for ridiculous reasons (or, often, for legitimate ones) so not sure what you'd charge them for. The price of a phone call?

Because raising taxes = a lost general election.

@celtiethree

Threshold for repaying student loans is around 27k and they pay 9% of income over that amount. Everyone seems happy enough for students who had no choice but to take loans to pay a high marginal rate over that threshold. Take an additional 9% off everyone else who doesn’t have/ had a student loan that at least equals the tutition fee plus minimum maintenance loan (3 years worth) - with a claw back that equals this amount of student debt plus compound that at 4% per annum plus rpi. After 30 years waive any balance.

9% over the threshold shouldn’t be too much as we’ve just accepted that this marginal rate for our graduating students is perfectly fine.

Allow the government to vary the repayment terms at their will - so if they aren’t getting enough they can reduce the threshold or extend the term - which they can do today to students

I hate the tuition fees but you could argue that students have actively agreed to these charges by going to uni, the general public haven’t actively agreed to anything. Punishing the rest of the population who may or may not have voted for the party that slipped in the rises doesn’t seem fair.

@FaceyRomford

Because raising taxes = a lost general election.

Not if every party is doing the same.