To wonder why the government don't increase taxes to fund the NHS better?

[Smolgoose]

From a lot of threads on here recently about lack of being able to access healthcare, and my own anecdotal experiences, it seems like the NHS is in a worse crisis than ever, and not able to cope with the demands upon it.

This thread is definately not about individual NHS staff, but about the whole system generally.

Why don't the government increase taxation to increase NHS funding? It wouldn't solve some issues such as the shortage of staff, but funding could be also funneled into increasing the number of people trained.

A lot of people think we are heading down a privitisation route, but as far as I know the government have not yet floated the idea of changing free at the point of service.

There are some people who can't a

Afford to pay more tax.

Because the NHS needs a complete overhaul- you’d just be throwing good money after bad at the moment

No other country funds a healthcare system from taxation alone. We're the only one that does and it's not going well. So no, I don't think we should just do more of the same.

Agree with others that it needs an overhaul, something along the lines of the rest of Europe. I'd happily chip in more on that basis. Not so happy to put more into a healthcare model that doesn't work.

Nhs wastes loads of money, I see it every day. Employ plenty of people who are not contributing in any way to service delivery, who are twiddling their thumbs. For real.

If they employed key staff for specific roles and service delivery, sure. But it’s wasting money currently and I wouldn’t want to waste any more

@Sirius99

CheerfulBunny It’s funded to the tune of 150 Billion a year, so it’s just a case of throwing more money at it, how much another 50/100 billion, how about streamlining the management, better procurement, limiting some services and make people have health insurance for certain activities, make people pay that shouldn’t be using the NHS ( health tourist), means testing for dental and eye care, etc I’m sure you and other people could come up with some ideas,

Indeed.

We already pay for completely private dental care (our dentist doesn't do any NHS work), opticians, highest level of BUPA cover, etc., etc., for myself, DH and also our adult DD.

And just how much more money do people think should be pumped into the NHS?

The NHS does far far more than it should. Billions are spent on treatments that aren't lifesaving so much as life prolonging life by a matter of months or a few short years. Medicine has advanced so far but no one ever seems to ask the question whether we should do some treatments just because we can. People expect that all advances in medicine are available through the NHS no matter what the cost, that is pretty unsustainable.

@Ohthatsgreat

people have voted for a cheap NHS

Tax burden is at a 50 year high.

The Department of Health and Social Care Budget for 21/22 is £159bn with a further £22bn on top for COVID.

In 2017 it employed 1.5million people and was the worlds 5th largest employer.

I’m not sure where the idea that people have voted for a cheap healthcare system has come from.

The NHS has plenty of money. It’s just wasteful and people are fed up of paying into a system and getting poor outcomes. People want choice and flexibility e.g. being able to speak to a GP at a time that’s convenient to them not being told to ring at 8am for a game of faster finger first to get an appointment.
Or being able to access specialists rather than have to beg their GP who acts a gate keeper to the rest of the ‘system’.

In fact I would imagine most people wouldn’t be against an extra penny on income tax if it was clear it was going to support a health care model fit for the 21st century.

I look at the french, German and Australian systems with a bit of envy to be honest.

citation needed

@canary1

If they employed key staff for specific roles and service delivery, sure. But it’s wasting money currently and I wouldn’t want to waste any more

citation needed

@canary1

Nhs wastes loads of money, I see it every day. Employ plenty of people who are not contributing in any way to service delivery, who are twiddling their thumbs. For real.

citation needed

@HermioneWeasley

Because the NHS needs a complete overhaul- you’d just be throwing good money after bad at the moment

citation needed

@Hoppipolla479

I’d be VERY happy to pay more tax, but actually the NHS is funded well and managed extremely badly

citation needed

@FixTheBone - i am not sure you understand how internet discussion forums work :) (no citation needed)

Lots of people just repeating the government and government media BS. Not seeing much evidence of fact checking.

Please read my above comments and looks at this.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

If you compare the wealth of the UK against the amount of money we spend per person, we are down around 20th-30th on the world rankings, somewhere between argentina and armenia.

If you look at the healthcare outcomes we are about 18th in the world, so better than would be expected based on the amount of money spent. And better than a number of countries that spend significantly more money per person, such as the USA down at 37th that spends double what we do.

The NHS is ALREADY better than it should be.

Expecting efficiency savings, and 'better management' when it is already better than average is unrealistic.

[quote korawick12345]@FixTheBone - i am not sure you understand how internet discussion forums work :) (no citation needed)[/quote]
lol.

I am providing citations though. (not that it will make any difference to people who have already decided what the truth is, based on what the Sun says)

There's waste in all big organisations and in all healthcare systems as it goes: the NHS is pretty efficient with what it has. But what it has isn't enough. We spend less per person on healthcare than any other developed country, and it shows, and really taxation alone won't fill the gap.

As a pp said a lot of people can't pay any more tax than they already do : wages below the fifth decile haven't even remotely kept up with inflation over the past fifteen years. There isn't any room to squeeze more out of this cohort of people, especially now that local taxation often hits them at a rate of 15% of their take home and the rest of what they earn goes to propping up a rentier economy via paying off their landlords.

It was a great idea when it started but the time for its original purpose is long gone.

I don't want to pay more tax. I pay enough already!

Because they've set themselves up as the low tax party and think I should vote for them because their budgets usually award households like mine with a few hundred quid a year that we literally won't notice. Because 'slashing generous benefits' that are already paltry is a much more popular way of seeming to back up government income than taxation, despite the fact it's totally self defeating.

But YANBU, they should raise taxes, certainly for the upper % households like mine. Would I be thrilled to pay more tax each month? No. Could I still feed and clothe and house my family while paying more tax? Absolutely.

Because we pay enough tax it's the fact that the government do not spend our taxes wisely! They pay out a fortune for completely non essential things (ie refurbishing Boris' flat...).

MPs also get a ridiculously high wage and claim a ridiculous amount in expenses..

Maybe that needs to be looked at?! How can at slim down the bill to the tax payer so the majority goes where it is actually needed!

@Mammyloveswine

Because we pay enough tax it's the fact that the government do not spend our taxes wisely! They pay out a fortune for completely non essential things (ie refurbishing Boris' flat...).

MPs also get a ridiculously high wage and claim a ridiculous amount in expenses..

Maybe that needs to be looked at?! How can at slim down the bill to the tax payer so the majority goes where it is actually needed!

Even if Boris' flat was paid for from taxation (it wasn't), it reportedly cost £58k. That is £0.002 per household. One fifth of one pence. Not really a fortune that is going to move the dial on your healthcare.

MPs get paid £82k. Again not a fortune - pretty standard middle management income in a large company (I would suggest "UK plc" is a pretty large company). That said, it is almost £2 per household, so you can have a free box of paracetamol every 2 months if we get rid of them all.

SofiaMichelle
That’s good, because you can afford it, perhaps this is the way to go use the NHS for emergency, pay for other things if you can afford it ( means testing )

@Sirius99

bananapumpkin What’s wrong with means testing ? Rich people having free eye test and dental check ups ( pensioners) how about paying to see the doctor?

Hang on are you saying rich PENSIONERS get free eye tests and dental treatment if so you really need to get your facts straight. First of all everyone over 60 gets free eye tests and last time I checked the state pension age is still 66, the 60s-66s are working age people not pensioners, and only pensioners on pension credit the poorer pensioners get help with paying for glasses as for free dental treatment - no they don't the only pensioners who get that are again those who get pension credit rich pensioners don't get PC they wouldn't be entitled.

I don’t trust the politicians to tell us the truth but I do trust the civil servants and public servants below them.

I’d wholly support an increase in taxes - and it would not be very much needed to be honest!! I also want more tax to fund better education provision. I was disgusted to read that Rishi won’t provide enough funding to help with the schools, especially catch up funding needed, not to mention the crumbling buildings and instead there are bullshit suggestions like reducing lunch time for kids even more. Disgraceful.

Another vote for paying more tax to protect the NHS. Nationalised healthcare is a precious commodity and should never be taken for granted.