Maggie Thatcher, the iron lady

[Stressedout65]

Not an aibu know, but just watched Mrs Thatcher v The Miners on C5 from last night. I remember the strike vividly but felt far removed from it as we weren't part of a mining community.
For those who can remember her, good or bad for Britain? Admire her or hate her? I can't decide. Part of me thinks she was a complete & utter bitch, another part of me thinks she had more balls than all the wet blankets currently running the country now or since

Admire her or hate her?

I'm not from the UK but I think it's both. Hate her politics, admire her from a feminist point of view.

This ^

She was also good for the USA and (Apartheid) South Africa.

It was so nice of her to allow any (white) South African with a British parent or grand parent to vote in UK elections even if they had never set foot in the UK.

Commonwealth citizens could vote but only if they were in the UK.

Awful evil woman.

Completely destroyed this country.
We are still living with her legacy now and in all likelihood we always will do, I can't see a way of repairing the damage she has done.

Everything from the housing crisis, the huge benefit bill, zero hour contracts the list goes on.

@olddaj

As a child of the 70s, it was so inspiring to see a strong, intelligent woman from an average background in the top job, even if I didn’t agree with all her policies. As a young woman it made me feel I could achieve anything I set my mind to.

I know people say she wasn’t a feminist (and I’m not sure about that), but she did a lot for women like me just by achieving what she did in what was then an extremely male dominated world.

She put back womans issues and rights back decades, she smashed unions that had helped women and equal pay, her spending cuts kept women in violent relationships (closed down refuges) she under funded the NHS by approx 3% each and every year, compared to the EU15 average, by the end of the 90s, waiting lists were years long.

Who got hit the hardest when whole regions went into mass unemployment? yep women!

The world is still male dominated.

BUT she'd have never have had a EU referendum and would have handled CV far better than Johnson.

It was so nice of her to allow any (white) South African with a British parent or grand parent to vote in UK elections even if they had never set foot in the UK

Commonwealth citizens could vote but only if they were in the UK

I didn't know that, what a stupid idea, she real was crazed.

I'm old enough to remember when she was in charge. I didn't agree with most of her policies but she was a strong woman. She was a conviction politician and stood up for what she believed in, regardless of personal popularity. The opposite of so many of today's politicians who bend like the wind and change policies on a whim if they think it makes them unpopular. Like David Cameron, a weak political charlatan who craved popularity. The opposite of Thatcher.

The day she resigned, I was visiting my brother in hospital. I remember the news coming through and the rejoicing and cheering of the doctors and nurses. Said it all really.

She took peoples jobs and did nothing to help rebuild those areas

She destroyed communities
She sold off the council houses which led to the current housing mess

She might have been strong but I don't think she cared for the people of this country , she didn't understand anyone who wasn't like her, she didn't understand her advantages in life

I profoundly disagree with much of her politics, but she did exactly what she said she would and had the courage of her convictions, which is a lot more than you can say for most of our current crop of politicians (a few notable exceptions).

When it comes to the miners, I think it is a lot more complicated than miners = good, working class men, wronged by the world and Thatcher (or anyone who did not agree with the miners)= evil. The mining unions did need to be dealt with and they were in no small part the authors of their own demise. They did play a huge part in the events that came to pass, and the union leaders do bear a share of the blame for the devastating outcomes for their communities.

Mining was heavily subsidised and needed reform. The unions’ (not just mining unions) actions were often politically motivated and paid scant attention to the needs of their members or the impact of their actions on the country. On the other hand, MT could and should have found a way to replace the industries that were destroyed and not left these communities in tatters for generations. I would like to think there could have been a way to reduce the power of the unions without decimating them, but I’m not sure how that could have been achieved. Her policies on the poll tax and social housing were deeply flawed and the corner caused much unnecessary hardship at the time. The latter caused structural problem in the housing market that continue (though successive governments should have addresses these issues by now and have continually failed to do so).

I suppose, like many of us,

Narcissistic Meglomaniac

Sorry, posted too soon- like many of us she was flawed and didn’t always make the right choices- but did what she thought was best. Unlike the majority of us, though, her poor decisions had the power to cause much harm to many people and whole communities. I don’t think she was evil, I do think she got some things right and lots of things wrong. She also, for good or ill, delivered on her manifesto commitments- I.e. she delivered what she had a mandate from the electorate to do.

@Imasoulman

Awful evil woman.

Completely destroyed this country.

WTF?

Destroyed it? She brought it back from the brink of destruction at the hands of the unions.

And I say that as someone brought up in a northern coal mining area.

I remember it well! My mother's side of the family lived in a mining village in the north east and my grandad and uncles were all miners during the mining strike. I was just about to get married and my DH was a police officer being sent off to the picket lines (thank God he only got sent as far as the Midlands!).

The miners hated her with a vengeance and to be honest the police weren't particularly keen on her either. The whole situation could have split our family to be honest but my family knew my DH well and didn't blame him for what was going on.

I hated her politics but by God I admired her for standing up for her herself. She had balls is all I can say.

[quote SofiaMichelle]@Imasoulman

Awful evil woman.

Completely destroyed this country.

WTF?

Destroyed it? She brought it back from the brink of destruction at the hands of the unions.

And I say that as someone brought up in a northern coal mining area.[/quote]

She sold off all the council houses leading to today's housing crisis which in turn has given the tax payers a huge benefits burden to finance.

She closed entire industries with no thought of moving forward which meant generations of people being unemployed.

She used the police like a dictator would, causing the public to lose trust and respect.

She destroyed the unions leaving working people with out any recourse and so we see people having to work Sundays, having to agree to zero hour contracts.

Remember when inflation was so high that people were literally walking away from homes they could no longer afford.

The homophobic policy's, selling of utilities so that bills sky rocketed to provide profits .......

The list goes on and on

The problem is we think weak leaders are useless and strong leaders are dangerous.

The strongest Prime Ministers in my lifetime were Thatcher, Blair and Cameron. All three caused severe damage to the country in their own special way. Because they were strong, they were able to get things done, and that means bad things as well as occasional good things.

The other PMs - Major, Brown, May and Johnson - were/are weak, indecisive and were/are unable to distinguish between being in a position of power and being a powerful person.

@skirk64

The problem is we think weak leaders are useless and strong leaders are dangerous.

The strongest Prime Ministers in my lifetime were Thatcher, Blair and Cameron. All three caused severe damage to the country in their own special way. Because they were strong, they were able to get things done, and that means bad things as well as occasional good things.

The other PMs - Major, Brown, May and Johnson - were/are weak, indecisive and were/are unable to distinguish between being in a position of power and being a powerful person.

I would be interested to know what damage Blair caused to the country

Skirk64 I very much agree with your point about strong leaders vs weak leaders. However I think that David Cameron was one of the weakest leaders we've ever had. Changed policies on a whim to be popular. And walked away after the Brexit vote which he instigated. If he'd been a strong leader he would have stayed and seen the exit through to its conclusion. He chose the easy path.

I agree that Thatcher and Blair were excessively strong leaders. On Thatcher, I remember someone defending her at the time on the grounds that 'at least she's a strong leader' and someone else replying, 'well, you can have a strong horse, and it can still pull you off the edge of a cliff!' Blair had a much more mixed record. On domestic issues, I think he did considerably more good than harm, though he did a few things that I found pretty unforgivable (keeping Chris Woodhead on as chair of OFSTED; starting some of the mean policies toward disabled people which were later greatly multiplied and magnified by the Tories). But he certainly deserves to be positively remembered for the minimum wage, and for increased investment in the public services. But following Bush into Iraq was a disastrous decision! I'm not sure that Brown was weak - he was very unlucky in being PM when the global banking crisis struck, and he lacked charisma and 'people skills', which is not quite the same as being weak; but I think he was a relatively good Prime Minister against terrible odds. Cameron, on the other hand, was one of the weakest Prime Ministers ever. Until Cameron, I thought, due to the long years of Thatcher, that an excessively weak PM was at least better than an excessively strong and misguided one; but post-Cameron I think both are equally bad. He just let the worst elements in his party walk all over him, and a lot of damage resulted!

Cameron strong? Please! Weakest PM of my life time.

I think Major is very under rated. The NI peace treaty might have been completed by Blair but it was Major who did all the groundwork, it would have taken far longer to achieve without him.

@AssassinatedBeauty - perfectly put

*Cameron strong? Please! Weakest PM of my life time.

I think Major is very under rated. The NI peace treaty might have been completed by Blair but it was Major who did all the groundwork, it would have taken far longer to achieve without him.*

Agree on both points.

I'm not sure why the right of commonwealth citizens to vote in the UK is being linked Thatcher. That right dates back to the time that the commonwealth was the British empire.

@Leonardsgirl

I'm old enough to remember when she was in charge. I didn't agree with most of her policies but she was a strong woman. She was a conviction politician and stood up for what she believed in, regardless of personal popularity. The opposite of so many of today's politicians who bend like the wind and change policies on a whim if they think it makes them unpopular. Like David Cameron, a weak political charlatan who craved popularity. The opposite of Thatcher.

She was a conviction politician and stood up for what she believed in, regardless of personal popularity. This is a lie told by Thatcher apologists and revisionist "historians". Her "convictions" were precisely as strong as they needed to be for her to retain power. She did a U turn on the Monetarism policies of her first two years after creating a recession and soaring unemployment despite the campaign slogan "Labour isn't working" that showed a dole queue - the irony. She had to U turn on the Poll tax - too late to save her, but still on her watch. She claimed not to talk to terrorists but was lying through her teeth about that. She claimed to be against EEC federalism but signed the Single European Act in 1986. She made a powerful speech against smoking and the tobacco industry in office, then accepted a $1million consultancy to help Philip Morris fight EU and other regulations. No morals at all, no honesty, no decency and no convictions except a will to self aggrandise.

@StoneofDestiny

Thatcher....had integrity

She did not.
She lied about the sinking of The Belgrano. She supported her equally vile son in using mercenaries to overthrow a government and greased palms to get his businesses going.

No integrity.

this, 100%.

Let's not forget how she supported the apartheid regime as well and referrred to Mandela as a terrorist. her husband had loads of financial interests in SA. And as for her support for Augusto Pinochet...the woman was absolutely repellant and corrupt.

The whole 'Strong Leader' argument is ludicrous.

Assad is a strong leader. The Hong Kong well China really leadership is 'strong'.

Stalin - the same.

Pol Pot....Hitler...all 'strong'. And utter evil bastards.