Maggie Thatcher, the iron lady

[Stressedout65]

Not an aibu know, but just watched Mrs Thatcher v The Miners on C5 from last night. I remember the strike vividly but felt far removed from it as we weren't part of a mining community.
For those who can remember her, good or bad for Britain? Admire her or hate her? I can't decide. Part of me thinks she was a complete & utter bitch, another part of me thinks she had more balls than all the wet blankets currently running the country now or since

I disagree with most of her politics.

But as a girl growing up in the 80s, it was great to have an example that women could run countries.

She undermined the unions, which was no bad thing

And here we are in the 21st Century where we have been fighting to get a minimum wage for workers, equal rights in the workplace, and anti discrimination laws passed. We have zero hours wage jobs in abundance. We have de nationalised industries that are inefficient and unfit for purpose - and hey, we now have discussions in a Tory Government about renationalising public transport.

Nothing attractive about this woman's views.

Dislike her policies intensely. Wish we could get someone running the country with her work ethic and ability to get things done though.

I grew up in a Derbyshire mining town in the 1980s. My dad wasn’t a miner, but plenty of my friends’ fathers & uncles were. At that time, being a miner was seen as a good, secure, well-paid, unionised job. Miners were important men. They had status and respect. They literally kept the lights on. Tragically, during the 84-5 strike they were lions led by donkeys, and their defeat permanently changed the balance of power between capital & labour in Britain.

Thatcher was hated in Derbyshire because she wanted to destroy jobs, destroy the coal industry and destroy the communities which depended on it. Even now when I hear that awful, fake elocuted voice I just want to throw something at the TV.

But as a girl growing up in the 80s, it was great to have an example that women could run countries

I disagree that she was an example to other women. She was devoid of compassion, a trait normally associated with women - (vomit inducing when she said the prayer of St Francis of Assisi, and enacted none of it).

I hugely admire Maggie Thatcher for getting to where she did as a woman in that era. The sexism and snobbish attitudes she had to contend with were off the scale.

I don’t agree with some of her policies (particularly the social housing ones), although she did pull Britain out of the serious economic hardships of the 1970s. I also read that Labour closed far more pits than Maggie ever did.

Love her or loathe her, she certainly had more gravitas, conviction and intelligence than all of today’s politicians put together!

Why should women have compassion more than men should?

I hope she’s burning in hell basically.
I’m from a mining town and her power games completely destroyed Hard working men, their families, homes, the community.
The town has never recovered.

I always wondered why Labour didn't reopen the mines when they took over in 1997.

Thatcher's government (not just her alone) was responsible for one of the worst policies ever. The right to buy, that gave the people who needed it the least a very very cheap home to own (at taxpayer cost). They had secure affordable housing - something the policy denied to the generations that came after.

However, arguably the governments that followed - starting with Tony Blair - are more to blame for today's housing and homelessness crisis. Afterall, by the time they were in power it was impossible to deny the devastating impact of the policy. Yet Blair and then Brown and then Cameron, May, and now Johnson continue to allow it (in England, at least).

She was a conviction politician who took no prisoners and neither spouted nor tolerated bullshit. I admire her for that. She was not born of privilege so in that sense she was a meritocrat but she took advantage of a rich man to further her ambitions (IMHO).

However she bought support by selling off state assets and she was determined to break the miners, the backbone of the working people. Once she'd done that, everything was up for grabs. Big Bang freed the financial markets, creating the boom-bust situation we are familiar with today. Her legacy goes on, for good or ill.

She's history now, which makes it easier to view her legacy objectively.

What happened at the hands of this woman's indifference to sentiment and good sense in the early 1980s brought unnecessary calamity to the lives of several million people who lost their jobs. It led to riots that nobody needed. More insidiously, it fathered a mood of tolerated harshness. Materialistic individualism was blessed as a virtue, the driver of national success. Everything was justified as long as it made money – and this, too, is still with us

Thatcherism failed to destroy the welfare state. The lady was too shrewd to try that, and barely succeeded in reducing the share of the national income taken by the public sector. But the sense of community evaporated. There turned out to be no such thing as society, at least in the sense we used to understand it. Whether pushing each other off the road, barging past social rivals, beating up rival soccer fans, or idolising wealth as the only measure of virtue, Brits became more unpleasant to be with. This regrettable transformation was blessed by a leader who probably did not know it was happening because she didn't care if it happened or not. But it did, and the consequences seem impossible to reverse
The Guardian

Why should women have compassion more than men should?

Nobody said they should.

I'm Irish, you can imagine how I feel about her.

One thing's for certain. Other policies aside, she would have dealt with Covid. Unlike Boris.

She was a scientist. She was also willing to make unpopular decisions and stick by them - something very much needed in a pandemic.

Don't forget selling off council houses for votes!

@AnyName1

I'm Irish, you can imagine how I feel about her.

I'm from Liverpool - so yeah - what AnyName1 said!

Thatcherism failed to destroy the welfare state

Tony Blair succeeded where she failed. He pushed that door wide open particularly for the sick and disabled.

@StoneofDestiny

Don't forget selling off council houses for votes!

Yes. The worse policy ever...but enthusiastically continued by Labour well after it was impossible to ignore or deny it's devastating impact.

She doesn’t seem to have been a terribly good mother.

I struggle to be a good mother working 9-5, I can’t imagine how difficult it must have been for Thatcher trying to raise two kids whilst simultaneously running the county, particularly in that era.

I always wondered why Labour didn't reopen the mines when they took over in 1997.

Presumably it’s because they knew they weren’t sustainable. As a nation we’re phasing out coal as a hangover from the Victorian era that is incredibly bad for the environment.

If Maggie hadn’t closed the mines, do people really think we would be mining anything like the same quantities of coal as we did then today, when we’re trying to move to more eco-friendly methods of producing power, like nuclear and wind farms?

I don’t really see that there was much alternative to closing the mines, I think it would have happened by now anyway. The terrible mistake that governments (Tory and Labour) made was not investing heavily in those mining communities to ensure there were other opportunities for employment. Instead they were just left to rot.

@ViciousJackdaw

I voted YANBU but only because it is never unreasonable to ask a question.

I was born in the mid-70s and remember 'Margaret Thatcher milk snatcher' from the playground. I come from a city where she is hated and with damn good reason. That venomous hag brought my city to its knees then pissed all over it.

This

I'm Irish, you can imagine how I feel about her

In Scottish - she is still detested in Scotland.

If we could get a Welsh person on board we'll have covered all the Celts.

Dan Jarvis MP said...

In coalfield communities like mine, Thatcher’s legacy is one of devastation. For her, defeating the miners and destroying the industry that employed them was both personal and political. It wasn’t just their jobs she took; it was their sense of purpose and professional pride.

And it wasn’t just the coal industry she was attacking; it was the communities centred on it. Once referring to the miners as the “enemy within”, the way Thatcher treated them and their families was unconscionable.

Rather than stimulating alternative employment and reskilling these communities, Thatcher’s government just destroyed the industries, walked away and – in order to massage the unemployment figures – pushed many job seekers on to disability benefits.

Thatcher’s policies precipitated increased spending on social security benefits not only during the years immediately after the pits closed, but also the decades since. Reduced regional employment opportunities and increased dependency remain a central aspect of Margaret Thatcher’s legacy.

*worst

What I find strange is whenever I've had conversations with people about the mines. She's apparently so evil for closing them yet I seem to be in the minority for wishing they had been reopened. The same people who castigate her for closing them react with utter horror when I suggest reopening.

From what I understand Labour closed more mines than Thatcher's government? I also was led to believe we had to close them because it was a requirement by the EU (EC or EEC as it was then)?

So, am I am in the minority? Do other people think Blair should've reopened the mines? Should we try now?

Look up Anne Williams if you want to know who the real Iron Lady was. It's also worth reading about the Orgreave Colliery, if you don't already know.