Please advise unruly toddler

[unrulytoddler]

When out in public, if my almost 1 and a half year old DD doesn't get her way, she goes absolutely nuts.

Venturing out for the first times at the moment and it's becoming increasingly clear that I don't know what to do. People look and are annoyed ( but I don't really care that they are annoyed, I'm doing my best ).

I'm trying to go with positive discipline, validating her feelings and distractions. But yesterday she just would not get back into her pram. Screamed bloody murder. She also refused to wear her hat, even though it was very sunny and she needed to. She also just had to have my Coke can and wouldn't let it go. She also refused to walk and would just throw herself on the floor.

I stayed calm, explained why she needed to wear her hat for example ' because you will get hot ' and when she was screaming and crying about it, I told her that ' I understand she's frustrated because she doesn't want to wear the hat and that's frustrating ' and tried to cuddle/comfort her.

I could not control her at all. I try to not fight every battle and only focus on important things, like wearing her hat. But it's not working.

Am I doing something wrong ? Sometimes I stay a bit silent, but I don't get angry etc. I just don't know what to do.

Don't waste words with child so young. Reasoning, explaining, validating feelings, these things are pointless with a child this age, all you are doing is a) overwhelming with words so your message is lost b) giving a lot of attention for this behaviour.

I would

1. keep the message short/clear eg
   "Do not hit."
   "Hat on".

2. ignore where possible. If she is kicking off about going in the pram try not to give this too much attention, don't wheedle or cajole, simply strap her in as fast as you can and move on quickly.

3. distract where a situation is bad. Eg kicking off about going in a pram, say "oooh look let's race that fluffy dog!" Or "uh oh, its wavy time!" Then weave the pram a bit, make it fun. Try not to give the impression that the screaming is having any impact.

Also people may say "offer choices" but as young as this, that is also pointless and you will notice that the child commonly simply repeats whichever option is stated second. Eg: "do you want pram or walk? "Walk" (then refuses to), or "do you want pear or apple?" "Apple" (then kicks off when given it etc etc

With my ds the tantrums were normally hungry or tired related. I’ve done the naughty room and now he takes himself there at 3 years old when he’s feeling angry and comes back when he’s ready to play again. It’s obviously hard to do a naughty room when out but I agree the firm no and a quick why and then ignore or stand them somewhere to have a tantrum! I definitely wouldn’t be doing long discussions and cuddling etc would send my ds into a larger meltdown!

Still too many words haha ?

Way too many words!

It's all very well-meant, I know, but saying things like 'you're sad & angry' with an 18 mo is completely unnecessary.

You can still validate their feelings with 'I know, I know' and other soothing gestures.

Just say 'no' and one line reason, distract / move on.

It feels a bit exhausting listening to the earnest validation of feelings bit. Baby doesn't understand but the over-engagement fuels the attention & drama so it keeps going.

Keep it simple. And things change quickly at that age too!

With my two, I had to be mindful of things like hunger/tiredness and anticipate problems before they became problems.

We also had routines so they generally knew what to expect.

I wasn’t hugely strict, but they were pretty ok behaviour wise - because I usually had snacks for around when they may be hungry or made sure they got decent naps etc.

Also give them two choices and that’s it. Keep the talking brief and try and avoid saying “don’t do X” because some kids just hear the “do X” bit and you may end up giving them ideas 😂 better to tell them what you want them to do instead.

Tantrums only work if there's an audience. Just slowly turn and walk away in a thoroughly bored way. She'll feel like a tit and that will be the end of it.

I wouldn't necessarily stop the validation of feelings part, just use as basic and brief language as you can. It's all well and good to say that an an 18 month old doesn't understand 'sad' or 'angry' but how will they learn to understand them if we don't explain and use the words in the first place? My DD wasn't speaking loads at 18 months but she knew words like 'sad' and 'angry' before she was 2. I can't see how she would have been able to do that if we hadn't have used the words in the first place?

I deffo agree with everyone though not to engage in endless negotiations and also when it comes to the crunch and things need to be done, ultimately after a quick validation and explanation ignoring is basically all you can do after. We go through things shortly after when they're calmer to explain again what happened and give a suggestion of a better solution for next time. Obviously this would totally go in one ear and out the other at 18m but for me it's easier to get in those habits early on and over time they understand and will engage. At least that has been true for my DD who is now about to turn 3 and can often have epic tantrums! Wrestling her into the pram was a frequent one especially as we only got a car a couple of months ago so she needed to be in it a lot before then.

The only other thing I can think of that I don't think has been dead upthread (or maybe I've missed it?) is a warning telling them of the consequence, so they get notice and time to change their behaviour. This again obviously won't work for an 18m old but I think it's a good habit to get into. So if DD is doing something I don't want her to do with an object I will tell her not to do it and explain why. If she persists I will remind her I told her not to do that and if she does it again I will prevent her from doing it by e.g. removing object, moving her, leaving where we are/whatever. And I always follow through if she doesn't desist, so she knows i always mean what I say.

Your sister probably got better behaviour because she understood that this isnt a tiny baby, it's a toddler. They aren't crying/screaming because their needs haven't been met, they are crying/screaming because they did not get their way. It sounds heartless but your primary focus should not be stopping the crying in the moment per se, but keeping them safe/doing what you need to do etc. They will kick off, yes, but the best thing you can do is ignore that as much as possible so they learn that it does not achieve anything at all.

Do remember to reward good reactions too. When DS was about 2, we planned an outing and the his usual favourite thing was closed for the day. I could see he was really upset and on point of throwing a wobbly, but he was really brave about it, had a little cry but managed to not go overboard. I took him to a nearby cafe and got him a drink and a treat!

I wouldn't necessarily stop the validation of feelings part, just use as basic and brief language as you can. It's all well and good to say that an an 18 month old doesn't understand 'sad' or 'angry' but how will they learn to understand them if we don't explain and use the words in the first place?

I do also agree with this. You can just say "yes, sad" without going into long explanations or negotiations.

@NeverDropYourMoonCup

I see reasoning with a toddler rather like my carefully explaining to the cat that her paws carry germs and for that reason, she isn't allowed to jump onto the countertop in pursuit of the butter dish or to attempt to smash her way through the closed kitchen window with her head in pursuit of the woodpigeon that is on the garden wall. Neither understand the minutiae of what I'm saying and, frankly, even if they did, neither would give two shits at that moment. But both understand a firm NO, even if they don't like it.

It's not a negotiation. It's an instruction.

Of course, with hats, it's illegal to superglue the things to their heads (cats or children), but if the alternative is sunburn and heatstroke, it's hat, stay under the parasol or home.

If it's not getting back in the buggy/cat basket, well, you get picked up and your raging little starfished body is put into the offending transportation device and securely fastened in to prevent escape.

If it's sticking fingers into a plug socket or chewing a power cable, you don't reason, you say NO and remove them from danger. As you do when they've got hold of a bottle of kitchen cleaner or an extremely pissed off looking squirrel.

If it's drinking your caffeine and sugar filled fizzy drink/mixer for vodka or nicking your chicken off your plate (or eating plastic), the answer is NO. It's not yours and/or the results will not be pleasant.

In terms of hurling herself on the floor, reins are great, as you can pick them up and carry a red faced, angry handbag to safety (as the throwing down will invariably happen when crossing a road) before putting them in their wheeled prison.

You're not there to please her. You're there to keep her alive, uninjured wherever possible and hopefully, to teach her that what Mummy, Nanny or Daddy says is what she has to do. Because her life may literally depend upon it at some point.

I don't negotiate with the cat. I don't negotiate with infants, either. Once her comprehension skills exceed that of the average domestic tabby, the human child can have further explanations. But at 18 months old, they've got a long way to go before they reach that point.

Excellent explanation

Another one with an unruly 18 month old.. gone are the days of chilling at the park or having a relaxing meal at the pub. He screeches whine moans runs around like a hooligan and wants to do everything he shouldn’t.
When I go out I go armed with snacks, drinks, YouTube and a handful of silly things to make him laugh is round and round the garden, tickle him under there or picking him up and letting him throw his head back so he’s upside down. He refuses to walk anywhere and basically throws himself full throttle into anything by running around like a mad thing. My nerves are on edge and I’m shattered by the time I get home.
Finally.. he point blank refuses to wear a sun hat.. i keep persisting and he picks it off and throws it out of the pram every. single. time.

By the way OP my DD (similar age) back arches like a beast too. Make sure your pram is set with the leg bit as flat as possible, it makes it easier to strap in a planking toddler.

Just read it again.. wheeled prison 🤣🤣🤣

@MeadowHay I think a warning about consequences could work with an 18 month old. My DS is 21 months (19 months corrected). He has a habit of climbing on things that he shouldn't, for example on his toy trucks.

Me: Don't climb on that, it's dangerous. If you climb on it I'll take it away
DS: 'grins' Climbs on it
Me: Confiscates it in the cupboard

Now DS doesn't climb on things half as often, and if it's a particularly high-value toy and I say tell him not to climb on it or I'll take it away then he stops straight away. If it's a toy he's not fussed about (so the attention from being told off is more valuable than the toy), then he stands on it anyway so that I will take it away. He doesn't even cry in that scenario... cause he was literally standing on it for attention. Sometimes he even confiscates them himself by taking them to the cupboard when I say I'm going to take it away...

I also used it for stopping him from touching things that are hot.
Me: Don't touch cause it's hot and it's dangerous
DS: 'touches it and doesn't like it cause it's hot' (I specifically made sure it was something that wouldn't burn him but that would be uncomfortable for him to touch)

Now when I say: Don't touch cause it's hot and it's dangerous
He doesn't touch it.

And even better with food etc that could be hot (but that I know isn't too hot)
Me: Be careful, check it isn't too hot
DS: 'Touches it cautiously to check'

Also on sun hats, I find that my two are less likely to pull off those swimming/beach ones that fit the head snuggly with a neck flap. They aren't going to win any prizes for fashion but who cares.

I was a primary school teacher before I had DS and I worked largely with nursery age, do 3/4 year olds. I learnt quickly that my biggest friend was consistency, followed by my motto of ‘we can’t have fun until I can trust you.’

Like a PP, I have stuck doggedly to my boundaries, even though DS5 has gone through ‘tricky’ periods where it was harder to do so. Now he mostly behaves well for me but DP and my in laws have been indulgent and inconsistent and it shows in his behaviour with them. I’ll work on this as DS gets older.

When he was 18 months old, I kept things short so a coke can would be removed and he’d be distracted. I might not even have said ‘no’ but might have said, ‘oh, thank you!’ BIG SMILE as I took it away ‘good boy, see the ducks?’ So he wasn’t hearing a negative he was hearing praise for giving it up. If he’d have cried I’d have just given him a cuddle tbh. They’re little but feelings are big and relative to their experience.

With the pram I would have offered a choice, but probably with my preferred option second so ‘walk or pram?’ Buuuut I’d have planted the seed of the idea of leaving five minutes earlier. ‘Oh DS it’s home time soon. What shall we do when we get home? Snack time at home!’ Then after a few more minutes, ‘nearly home time DS!’

Etc etc. Also, sometimes you just have to ignore a screaming tantrum. At the time, I felt like I was a bit of a shit parent if DS had one, and that others were judging me. Three short years later and I can tell you that if I see a parent dealing with a toddler tantrum I have a) sympathy and b) sheer relief that it isn’t mine. I never judge.

You’ve got this OP.

When my toddler gets like that I mostly just try to keep calm and distract them by saying things like 'ooo don't be too loud you might scare the cows'. We accidentally went on like a 3 mile walk today when it was nap time so she was a bit grumpy but we just made sure to keep watching out for trolls under bridges as she loves that. Basically just think about the things they enjoy (mine loves animals and imagination stuff) and distract them with it haha. I think it's easier to discuss strong feelings at home when you're not presurred by being in public.

You’ve probably already realised this, but just in case not - don’t underestimate the impact of lockdown. DS was 3 back in March 2020 and had had a busy active life beforehand. July/august 2020 (we’re in wales where restrictions were eased later than England) he was massively overstimulated and overwhelmed by ‘normal’ stuff again. Same this year when again, wales eased restrictions earlier than England despite locking down sooner in December. Even just getting in the car and driving out of our village for ‘leisure’ after three months of walks from our door got to him a bit.

I agree with pp that at that age short repeated sentences are the way to go. Hat on. In the pram. Home time. It's not up for discussion. Choices and discussion are for things like, red hat or blue hat? I'd get a shade for the pram that goes over enough so you don't have to worry about the hat staying on. Some pushchairs have straps that toddlers can pop, thankfully mine didn't so I could just lower the shade and ignore the tantrum. Plenty of drinks as they get thirsty and grumpy fast. But I'd leave a lot of the language for times when they're ready to engage. She is unfortunately going to have a lot of fusses, it's normal. Everybody else will just be grateful it isn't one of theirs kicking off!

Reading back as well I think I offered my first born far too many choices about walking /buggy when he wasn't equipped to make the choice. He had no idea how tired he'd be after a few steps. For the others, I just decided for them when it was time.

@NeverDropYourMoonCup. . Love it, agree 100%.

I think part of the problem comes from, as @NoIDontWatchLoveIsland says, transitioning from caring for a tiny baby to parenting a toddler. At some point between newborn and preschool-age, you have to go from meeting their demands (milk/cuddles) and tending to their every need to being in charge and laying down the law.

After having responsive parenting preached to me by midwives and health visitors ("you can't spoil a baby" etc.), it came as a shock when I realised that my 14 month DC was running rings around me and was dictator-in-chief in our household . 2 years later, I'm finally winning the power struggle and suppressing the rebels.

I think distraction is key and picking battles. I think at this stage too much talk about feelings will go over her head. This is something you would focus on age 3 plus, possibly a bit earlier. I can't believe people are getting annoyed about a child of this age having a tantrum. Arseholes.

I'm so with your sister her ie. Strict - no!

(and I wish so many other parents were too...)

@NeverDropYourMoonCup brilliant post so funny! Angry looking handbag, pissed off squirrel, star fish body! Hilarious 😂

Never give in to an 18 month old. I could get mine strapped in the buggy despite the planking manoeuvre and always had reins on. Find a quiet place if you’re out and about eg down a side street and turn them to face the wall until they calm down. If you give in to tantrums you will have them for a long time. PP had this right. At some point we all have to shift from babycare mode where we deliver what they are crying for to small child mode where we are in control, not them. 18 months is definitely there.

That’s awful that her father is completely uninvolved in parenting her. I’ll bet he does not ‘need’ to be working seven days a week, and paying a nanny to perform his half of parenting duties, but instead has chosen to opt out? Why did he want a kid?