Please advise unruly toddler

[unrulytoddler]

When out in public, if my almost 1 and a half year old DD doesn't get her way, she goes absolutely nuts.

Venturing out for the first times at the moment and it's becoming increasingly clear that I don't know what to do. People look and are annoyed ( but I don't really care that they are annoyed, I'm doing my best ).

I'm trying to go with positive discipline, validating her feelings and distractions. But yesterday she just would not get back into her pram. Screamed bloody murder. She also refused to wear her hat, even though it was very sunny and she needed to. She also just had to have my Coke can and wouldn't let it go. She also refused to walk and would just throw herself on the floor.

I stayed calm, explained why she needed to wear her hat for example ' because you will get hot ' and when she was screaming and crying about it, I told her that ' I understand she's frustrated because she doesn't want to wear the hat and that's frustrating ' and tried to cuddle/comfort her.

I could not control her at all. I try to not fight every battle and only focus on important things, like wearing her hat. But it's not working.

Am I doing something wrong ? Sometimes I stay a bit silent, but I don't get angry etc. I just don't know what to do.

They do go a bit bonkers at 18 months for a while

In response to your last post I would just take the can and say “no” and nothing else.
Also for the buggy I would just say “walk holding my hand or buggy?”
Tantrum would mean straight in buggy no further explanation.

I see reasoning with a toddler rather like my carefully explaining to the cat that her paws carry germs and for that reason, she isn't allowed to jump onto the countertop in pursuit of the butter dish or to attempt to smash her way through the closed kitchen window with her head in pursuit of the woodpigeon that is on the garden wall. Neither understand the minutiae of what I'm saying and, frankly, even if they did, neither would give two shits at that moment. But both understand a firm NO, even if they don't like it.

It's not a negotiation. It's an instruction.

Of course, with hats, it's illegal to superglue the things to their heads (cats or children), but if the alternative is sunburn and heatstroke, it's hat, stay under the parasol or home.

If it's not getting back in the buggy/cat basket, well, you get picked up and your raging little starfished body is put into the offending transportation device and securely fastened in to prevent escape.

If it's sticking fingers into a plug socket or chewing a power cable, you don't reason, you say NO and remove them from danger. As you do when they've got hold of a bottle of kitchen cleaner or an extremely pissed off looking squirrel.

If it's drinking your caffeine and sugar filled fizzy drink/mixer for vodka or nicking your chicken off your plate (or eating plastic), the answer is NO. It's not yours and/or the results will not be pleasant.

In terms of hurling herself on the floor, reins are great, as you can pick them up and carry a red faced, angry handbag to safety (as the throwing down will invariably happen when crossing a road) before putting them in their wheeled prison.

You're not there to please her. You're there to keep her alive, uninjured wherever possible and hopefully, to teach her that what Mummy, Nanny or Daddy says is what she has to do. Because her life may literally depend upon it at some point.

I don't negotiate with the cat. I don't negotiate with infants, either. Once her comprehension skills exceed that of the average domestic tabby, the human child can have further explanations. But at 18 months old, they've got a long way to go before they reach that point.

Toddler taming is a brilliant book

“carry a red faced, angry handbag to safety” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@NeverDropYourMoonCup this was my accessory for a few years!!

“She likes going to the playground and seeing other children. We've not been many times, but she's really interested in other children. It's so sweet. But so far I have not seen another toddler have her kind of breakdowns in public !“

Please don’t worry - they do! You just haven’t come across it yet.

It can help to not make any sudden changes, for example getting back in the push-chair when she is still busy in her own way. So to avoid that try to say something to help her prepare. ‘We will finish playing on the slide with two more goes. Then it’s push-chair time. After that we are going home. When we are at home it will be tome to read a lovely book.’ etc

In mid tantrum you might just have to pick her up and put her in the chair without saying anything. When she has calmed down a bit you can still give a hug.

You sound a lovely, calm, kind mother.

Will
Probs get flamed for this but just put her in the pram many a time I have strapped mine in when they were being less than angelic the school bell waits for nobody don't have time for tantrums on the school run
As pp said they have no idea what you are talking about at this age for sure give them a hug to calm them down but reasoning with a one year old is pointless and they need boundaries I feel tour pain though it won't last forever I promise xx

@NeverDropYourMoonCup

I see reasoning with a toddler rather like my carefully explaining to the cat that her paws carry germs and for that reason, she isn't allowed to jump onto the countertop in pursuit of the butter dish or to attempt to smash her way through the closed kitchen window with her head in pursuit of the woodpigeon that is on the garden wall. Neither understand the minutiae of what I'm saying and, frankly, even if they did, neither would give two shits at that moment. But both understand a firm NO, even if they don't like it.

It's not a negotiation. It's an instruction.

Of course, with hats, it's illegal to superglue the things to their heads (cats or children), but if the alternative is sunburn and heatstroke, it's hat, stay under the parasol or home.

If it's not getting back in the buggy/cat basket, well, you get picked up and your raging little starfished body is put into the offending transportation device and securely fastened in to prevent escape.

If it's sticking fingers into a plug socket or chewing a power cable, you don't reason, you say NO and remove them from danger. As you do when they've got hold of a bottle of kitchen cleaner or an extremely pissed off looking squirrel.

If it's drinking your caffeine and sugar filled fizzy drink/mixer for vodka or nicking your chicken off your plate (or eating plastic), the answer is NO. It's not yours and/or the results will not be pleasant.

In terms of hurling herself on the floor, reins are great, as you can pick them up and carry a red faced, angry handbag to safety (as the throwing down will invariably happen when crossing a road) before putting them in their wheeled prison.

You're not there to please her. You're there to keep her alive, uninjured wherever possible and hopefully, to teach her that what Mummy, Nanny or Daddy says is what she has to do. Because her life may literally depend upon it at some point.

I don't negotiate with the cat. I don't negotiate with infants, either. Once her comprehension skills exceed that of the average domestic tabby, the human child can have further explanations. But at 18 months old, they've got a long way to go before they reach that point.

Hahah this is brilliant

[quote unrulytoddler]@Countrygirl2021 my sister was here in April and she was quite ' strict ' with her. In the sense that my sis would tell her no a lot and just leave her alone to cry. Rather than the whole ' explaining their feelings and cuddling '. My sis would say ' NO you cannot hold the Coke can. You will hurt yourself ' and take it away from her. She would then let her cry on her own and just ignore her. Rather than what I try to do and give her a cuddle/ comfort her when she's upset about not getting her way. [/quote]
And I bet she was better behaved with your sister, no?

@3Britnee yes of course she was! My sis also just had to look and say ' NO ' and she was more likely to stop what she was doing than when I say it.

It isn't anything you're doing wrong and there is nothing you can really do about it, it's just their personality. I have two 'strong willed' ones, the first was particularly bad for tantrums.
Some toddlers are just more laid back than others. The one I have right now does a massive back arch and nearly smashes his head on the ground, he stamps his feet, lashes out, screeeeeams. I try to avoid situations that could end in a tantrum but obviously you can't help it most of the time.
You can't reason or explain anything to a baby of this age, just stay calm, try to distract them, dummy (if you have one) and take them away from the situation, oh and snacks! They always help.
If it makes you feel any better my eldest is now 5 and although he is still strong willed, he is very well behaved in public and has been for a long time, it just takes time.

Maybe knock the namby namby shit on the head then, if you want a well behaved child 🤷‍♀️

[quote unrulytoddler]@Countrygirl2021 my sister was here in April and she was quite ' strict ' with her. In the sense that my sis would tell her no a lot and just leave her alone to cry. Rather than the whole ' explaining their feelings and cuddling '. My sis would say ' NO you cannot hold the Coke can. You will hurt yourself ' and take it away from her. She would then let her cry on her own and just ignore her. Rather than what I try to do and give her a cuddle/ comfort her when she's upset about not getting her way. [/quote]
Your sister has the right approach. You can't reason with an 18 month old child but they will understand your tone of voice and actions. Use them so she's in no doubt what is important to you and how you'd like her to behave. You can be loving and gentle at other times.

@3Britnee

Maybe knock the namby namby shit on the head then, if you want a well behaved child 🤷‍♀️

Definitely need to do something. Don't want her walking all over me and becoming a brat later on!

^ I think with DD, a deep breath.. a slightly sterner NO. A shorter explanation and a shorter validation of her feelings will be OK. Something like :

Me : NO you can't have the coke can.
Me: tries to distract
If distraction fails :
DD : Proceeds to tantrum and cry and scream
Me: You're sad and angry now because you can't have the Coke can.. and then leave her to cry and be angry while saying something like ' oh no you're sad and angry ' ' it will pass ' in a calm voice, whilst also trying to distract her.

If she refuses to get into the pram, I'll tell her:

OK, you want to walk.. let's walk together.

If she then refuses to walk and throws herself on the floor, I force her into her pram whilst trying to distract ( if distraction fails ):

Me: you need to go in your pram now. You're sad and angry.

The end grin ^

I would try-

You: No that’s mummy’s. Here’s your juice/water.
DD tantrums.
You: No (stern) distract with her drink/toy/etc. Rinse and repeat.

Pram refusal-
You: if you walk you must hold mummy’s hand.
DD: throws self on floor
You: come on! Offer hand. Repeat a couple of times unless she’s past the point of no return.
DD: refuses- continues going ballistic.
You: strap in pram. “You need to go in the pram because you don’t want to walk”.

When mine tantrum I throw in a few “oh my goodness you must be angry! Let’s walk home together, come hold my hand please”. But he’s 3.5. At 18months the tone of your voice and facial expression is probably what’s going to indicate feelings and emotions to her. Telling her she feels upset/frustrated etc will just sound like “ajcnncisnekajcjvlsmf”

@Drunkenmonkey

It isn't anything you're doing wrong and there is nothing you can really do about it, it's just their personality. I have two 'strong willed' ones, the first was particularly bad for tantrums. Some toddlers are just more laid back than others. The one I have right now does a massive back arch and nearly smashes his head on the ground, he stamps his feet, lashes out, screeeeeams. I try to avoid situations that could end in a tantrum but obviously you can't help it most of the time. You can't reason or explain anything to a baby of this age, just stay calm, try to distract them, dummy (if you have one) and take them away from the situation, oh and snacks! They always help. If it makes you feel any better my eldest is now 5 and although he is still strong willed, he is very well behaved in public and has been for a long time, it just takes time.

Today she's been doing so many back arches when she's been angry that she did smash her head on the floor! She also very nearly smashed into me and into other stuff while back arching. It's really dangerous.

You just need to crack on. Your toddler is not always going to be happy and that's fine. Tuck them under your arm and carry or knee in the back to 'fold' them into the buggy. Polite smile for everyone around you as your little terror demonstrates the full power of her healthy little lungs. A sympathetic "I'm sorry you're upset" but otherwise ignore... Then make a quick exit.

We've all been there. Distraction works to an extent but, when they lose it, they lose it and you've just got to ride it out.

@IgglePiggleHater

You just need to crack on. Your toddler is not always going to be happy and that's fine. Tuck them under your arm and carry or knee in the back to 'fold' them into the buggy. Polite smile for everyone around you as your little terror demonstrates the full power of her healthy little lungs. A sympathetic "I'm sorry you're upset" but otherwise ignore... Then make a quick exit.

We've all been there. Distraction works to an extent but, when they lose it, they lose it and you've just got to ride it out.

Yeah I find you have a window for distraction. It's a very small window. You need to be fully present to judge when the window arises.. if you miss it.. there's no point in trying anymore, unless it's Mickey Mouse herself right in front of them !

@NeverDropYourMoonCup your post is brilliant 🤣🤣 and absolutely spot on!

Trust me other toddlers DO tantrum - all of them. (Well, all the toddlers I've ever met!). Whether it's in public or not is just pot luck. They eventually grow from bags of hot, irrational unpredictability into normal human beings but not for a while yet.

It's totally normal, we've all been there and come out the other side and you will too!

Just seen your update, I do still think that's a lot of words for an 18-month-old. I don't think you need to focus so much on validating their feelings at that age.

My 21-month-old (19-month-old age-corrected) DS is obsessed with our drinks and particularly drinks in cans so this is something I literally did with him. But given your example...

Me: NO you can't have the coke can, it's dangerous (or "it's mummy's" if it's just something I don't want to share)
Me: tries to distract
If distraction fails :
DS: Proceeds to tantrum and cry and scream
Me: Mummy loves you but you can't have the coke can leaves toddler to tantrum

He also loves to walk and often refuses to go in his pram. It used to be that he'd refuse for me and my DH, now he'll only refuse for DH and will do as I ask if I tell him he must go in his pram.

Me: You need to go in the pram because it isn't safe (or cause I can't carry him, or cause it's too far to walk etc)
DS: Arches back, screams and cries
Me: Softly (physically) forces into the pram (I also used treats a couple of times and massive amounts of praise when he did it first time with no fuss. I still thank him now every time he gets in fuss-free)
DS: Mummy loves you, you need to go in the pram because

The reason he now no longer acts up for me in the pram (same with drinks) is that I'm consistent. He knows no means no, he also still has lots of cuddles and is a very affectionate little boy. He adores his daddy too, but daddy isn't as consistent so he's more inclined to act up for his dad. If he's refusing to get in his pram for his dad I'll look at him and ask him to "Sit down please", and he'll do it. My DH thinks it's some sort of sorcery, I explained it's cause he knows he doesn't have an alternative with me.

We've had all the other battles you've described btw, including hats, suncream etc. I've found staying calm, explaining very simply and being consistent has yielded good results. I'm always quick to praise him whenever he does exactly what I ask too.

reins are great, as you can pick them up and carry a red faced, angry handbag to safety

Haha! Glad it’s not just me who does this then 😂

Ps- another one here who’s a fan of reins. If you catch them just as they’re about to hit the deck you can sort of swing them in a way that they poop back onto their feet. They will try to throw themselves down again but this gives you more chances to practice this move.

Pop not poop*

@NeverDropYourMoonCup

Agree with your posts.
And frankly I often don't negotiate with teenagers either. precisely because by then they understand that some things just need to be done, regardless of feelings.
If I ask the dishwasher to be emptied I don't care about whinging and pleading, any noise of discontent falls on deaf ears.