I’ve had enough of the class dojo

[Myleftfoot39]

Every week one or two children win the dojo and get a prize. Some children have won it twice or three times. Today a child who defaced another child’s clothing (had written all over it in class) won it (they are in Year 2).

My ds is quiet, well behaved and works really hard. Does all his homework, is reading and writing and working hard. It’s awful but today he came out of school crying his eyes out because he thought he might win the dojo.

Even at bedtime he was upset about it.He doesn’t understand why the naughty kids get rewards but he feels ‘invisible’. He said there’s something wrong with him and is very upset.

I have reassured him and told him the dojo doesn’t matter but it really does matter to him. The teacher makes a big deal out of giving the dojo out as theres a photo of the child on the dojo for all to see.

I’m really fed up of it!!

I think it's really sad how people are talking about "naughty children" especially at such a young age and is exactly why I'm so anxious about DS starting primary school this year.

From the outside he looks like any other child with no SEN and a loving family so his behaviour doesn't make sense. To people who actually know our family very well, he is a young child who has been through more trauma than most of you have ever been through in your life, has attachment disorder and severe anxiety with a 'fight' response.

These are children ffs. Their behaviour is communicating something, they're not just 'naughty'. My DS gets rewarded if he has a day at preschool without hitting his teachers or destroying a display. Because it takes a LOT of effort for him to be that restrained and regulate his emotions enough.

It sounds really sad but I had kept a tally of who won the class dojo because by this point ds still hadn’t won and I realised a whole school year had nearly passed.

I know we had lockdown but even that brought up inequalities because the key worker children in school (my child was not in school and the term key worker was very loosely defined by school) had work marked and given stickers. Online we were lucky to get a passing comment, we did complete all the work though.

My tally of dojo winners showed me that certain children were favourites and I have seen that these parents are very wealthy and give a lot of donations to school. They have won it two or three times. Some children it seems have been awarded it on merit and others because their behaviour is bad and those children get it because it seems a reward for being good that week.

We are nearly at the end of the school year so I could approach the HT. The teacher is hard to talk to, I get the impression she doesn’t like my ds. I sound paranoid but just feel like she doesn’t connect with him, there is another little boy who is in ds class who has never won the dojo. He is a lovely boy who struggles with the work and his parents separated before Christmas so has some emotional problems. He’s quiet though and goes overlooked I think.

The whole thing is frustrating.

“I just can't get my head around how people here are frothing at the 'unfairness' of the 'naughty' children being given (meaningless) awards. Given their children are described as well behaved and doing their best academically with clearly devoted and dedicated parent(s), it seems to me like they've already won. So I personally think in this scenario spending time explaining to my kids (if they really are finding this upsetting) why they may have not won an award and how that's absolutely ok, because a) we can't win everything and b) they won x,y,z sport/academic/home star chart etc so life is grand and to teach them to be happy for others is probably a better use of my time than harassing their teachers. Excellent life lessons there.“

It might seem meaningless to you, and all the above is very worthy, but try explaining to a 6 year old they haven’t won again because the child who has been bullying them won again?

It’s not about ‘can’t win everything’ (which is an ironic argument given the topic), but quite justifiability frustration at ‘why don’t I ever win?’.

*This same child regularly won class dojo and the HT award, I was there one morning when his mum told the teacher he’d not wet the bed or punched her once the night before the teacher was all praise and unsurprisingly he won the HT award that week....

The awards have nothing to do with how hard a child has worked it’s a teachers way of trying to control bad behaviour in class.*

Or a way to try and reinforce positive messages for children who possibly get little to no support at home, who have undiagnosed special needs, live with extreme adversity.

I’m so surprised folk here know without a shadow of doubt that the kids they’re referring to are just “naughty”. Both my kids have additional support needs, you wouldn’t know that to look at them, and wouldn’t know unless you spent considerable time with them. My DD particularly struggles in school and has a lot of carefully planned support to help her cope, class prizes mean a lot to her because they recognise the sheer effort it takes just to turn up to school every morning much less to behave well.

I’d much rather she didn’t have the challenges she has, and that she was able to work and behave in such a way that she flew under the radar but that’s not how it is for her.

The parents in school don’t know our circumstances and wouldn’t know she has really very complex additional needs due to extensive early trauma. I’d sincerely hope they aren’t calling her a “little shit” behind her back, because she got a certificate and their hard working, perfectly behaved, academic, sporty child didn’t.

This thread does really clearly demonstrate how hard it is for schools to get it right in the eyes of the parents though.

Lots of posts from people saying that the naughty SEN kids get too many points. This view is abhorrent to me btw, since those kids have got a mountain to climb to get onto an even footing with all of your lovely, NT, well-behaved, supported and loved children.

But then also lots of posts from people saying that it's always the same model pupils winning and nobody else gets a look in.

There have been posters saying that everybody should win over the academic year, but others then said 'so what's the point then.'

There have been posters saying it should be an honest competition for genuine achievement, even if some people never get it.

Personally, as long as it is not the only way to motivate and reward children, as long as the teacher is also offering verbal and written praise and other things such as house or table points, I think it should be treated like any other event where the judge's decision is final - trust that you absolutely cannot know what has happened in the classroom that week, that the teacher is best placed to make the decisions even if you don't agree with them, that there may be good reasons for the decision made.

I have had parents complaining over the years too. They keep an inaccurate tally, they forget their child won ages ago, their child left their cert in their tray, they complain that the naughty kid won but will never know that I caught him eating glue because he was so hungry.

If you genuinely think that a mistake has been made, that your kid has been forgotten, then ask the teacher initially and give him the opportunity to rectify the mistake - that's all the Head or the Governors or Ofsted or Cobra or whoever you're thinking of complaining to will do anyway, and mistakes happen.

And by the way, I came on earlier and said, honestly, that I was willing to get rid of my weekly award but could someone guide me on how parents wanted to see 'wow' moments rewarded and acknowledged.

So not just a good piece of work, offering to do a job, being well behaved - because those things are acknowledged in other ways. But those real wow moments. I had one response from someone who said to send them to the Head, on merit, just a handful of kids per year. But don't you think some people would never get that lovely experience, and parents would start asking what their child needed to do to get sent, and claiming bias? Very, very hard to please parents who think they know all there is to know about the classroom and children in it, but don't.

It might seem meaningless to you, and all the above is very worthy, but try explaining to a 6 year old they haven’t won again because the child who has been bullying them won again?

For a start I’d nit be saying they didn’t win because the child bullying them won again - I assume there are 20 odd other kids who might have won instead of either child. I’d be explaining that school is very difficult for some kids for lots of reasons, and the teacher wants those children who really find it hard to be in school to still know they are welcome, and to help them find something good about being in school. How lucky your child is that they are able to feel good in school, but you know they’re disappointed so you’ll ask the teacher to tell you what your child needs to do to get an award.

I’d also be addressing the bullying with the school very strongly.

Make an appointment to see teacher & explain this, also ask what the criteria for achieving it is. I hate these contrived awards. Sorry op, I hope your son is over it.

This thread has made me feel really sad as a primary school teacher. I just want to leave this here:

OP my children are now 20 and 17, whilst in primary school I could have written your exact post, I drove myself MAD with the injustice of the 'star of the week' situation, complaining to everyone I knew family, friends, the school mums on the playground ( who used my feelings as a reason to gaslight me with) and here we are 15 years later and schools are still following the same unjust path. In fact in retrospect we had similar issues in the 70's when I was at school.
My solution was to spout the usual cliches... on repeat 10x a day, so much that my kids take the mickey out of me but I hear them repeatedly mentoring their friends. I tell them they either work hard with their brains or their hands therefore who cares if they received A's or D's life is about finding a 'role' with their 'tribe' to bring their own happiness in their lives.
I'm sorry that I can't help short term but, raise their self esteem yourself explain that you don't have to rely on approval of others and it's a 'star of the week' of real value.

If your suggestion that donations to the school influence such things is true, and you are on really strong ground, then definitely approach the Head. However, the wealthy parents may have advantages such as space and other things that are benefiting the child somehow.

My child was punched at school (Year 1), the kids parents were called in. The next week, that kid won ‘person of the week’. My quiet, hardworking, kind daughter couldn’t understand it. It’s crap.

Our eldest was the perfect student type, quiet, always top marks, could do anything asked and always got on with others.

I always told her that was her reward. She got to read first, never in trouble, she’d go on to pick any courses she wanted. She wouldn’t struggle. I rewarded her too, pizzas for effort when I knew how she tried or little days out. I just explained she wasn’t the kind of child it was aimed at, she could do well regardless and she had a loving family who always watched her achievements and cared .

Sigh....i feel sad, long time since my children were at school, back then it was ALWAYS the children whos parents were involved in the PTA, they won everything got ALL the main parts for school plays ect, every single year, i had many evenings with crying children, i had hoped this had changed.

I like our Class dojo where the children compete against themselves and keep a record of how they are doing. I don’t like class dojo as a competition, nor really weekly stars. If you only give out one per week, some child is always going to wait till the 30th week before getting an award.
Others are smart enough to realise that if they’ve had one they’re unlikely to get another so why bother.
We have positive notes-sent to parents through the post 5 per class per week. It seems to work.

@Barney60

Sigh....i feel sad, long time since my children were at school, back then it was ALWAYS the children whos parents were involved in the PTA, they won everything got ALL the main parts for school plays ect, every single year, i had many evenings with crying children, i had hoped this had changed.

It has. Haven't you read the thread? It's the naughty SEN bullies who win it every week now. Apparently.

"We have positive notes-sent to parents through the post 5 per class per week. It seems to work."

That's a nice idea. Presume the recipients are not public knowledge so no one can keep a tally or bitch about how worthy someone is or isn't.

I have the class dojo app but also signed up for the dojo at home which means my little lad gets dojo rewards for doing good stuff at home like helping to clear away the dishes etc. I know it's not quite the same but it does help his morale because he is still earning rewards.

@Needsleep32

My child was punched at school (Year 1), the kids parents were called in. The next week, that kid won ‘person of the week’. My quiet, hardworking, kind daughter couldn’t understand it. It’s crap.

But apparently we should just explain this away to our children, lest the puncher be less supported.

@HintofVintagePink @needsleep32

But surely if the incident happened the previous week, it has no bearing on thr following week's 'Person of the Week'?

Maybe that 5 or 6 year old child struggles with regulating their emotions and behaviour and tried extra hard the following week, so got person of the week? Kids needs a fresh start.

@Jellycatspyjamas

It might seem meaningless to you, and all the above is very worthy, but try explaining to a 6 year old they haven’t won again because the child who has been bullying them won again?

For a start I’d nit be saying they didn’t win because the child bullying them won again - I assume there are 20 odd other kids who might have won instead of either child. I’d be explaining that school is very difficult for some kids for lots of reasons, and the teacher wants those children who really find it hard to be in school to still know they are welcome, and to help them find something good about being in school. How lucky your child is that they are able to feel good in school, but you know they’re disappointed so you’ll ask the teacher to tell you what your child needs to do to get an award.

I’d also be addressing the bullying with the school very strongly.

But that is precisely what happened. The child that repeatedly won was also the bully. My child was 6, not hard of understanding.

"But apparently we should just explain this away to our children, lest the puncher be less supported."

New day, new start. It is the only way some children can ever experience success.

Also, IME, most NT children are capable of understanding that there are different expectations for different pupils. It is generally the parents who seem to struggle with differentiation.

@Actuallyabitgreynow

I think it's really sad how people are talking about "naughty children" especially at such a young age and is exactly why I'm so anxious about DS starting primary school this year.

From the outside he looks like any other child with no SEN and a loving family so his behaviour doesn't make sense. To people who actually know our family very well, he is a young child who has been through more trauma than most of you have ever been through in your life, has attachment disorder and severe anxiety with a 'fight' response.

These are children ffs. Their behaviour is communicating something, they're not just 'naughty'. My DS gets rewarded if he has a day at preschool without hitting his teachers or destroying a display. Because it takes a LOT of effort for him to be that restrained and regulate his emotions enough.

Thankyou for this. I have been dipping in and out of this thread with interest. I am bringing up my traumatised granddaughter, with lots of disorders and visual problems. She is not quite school age so I have never heard of 'dojo' except as a training area for martial arts - it sounds like the perfect name for this fighting arena of parents vs teachers.

No system is perfect, but little person who is doing well, albeit not acknowledged publicly and flying under the radar just doesnt need as much support. It could be gently brought up so he gets recognized and not disappointed to the point of distress.

But have you actually thought about how distressing it is when there is a public display of 'good' children and a behaviour board or chart. For many children that dont have a good start in life even a star chart at home is not a good way to challenge behaviour because if they dont achieve a sticker, star etc then they say what is the point ?
Magnify that into a competition with 30 class mates and bam ! You will have a child that has possible lost before they start, no parents or learning disability etc and they will never be on that board and labled 'naughty' so why change?

The child that did the damage to the other child, perhaps should have been recognised that day.

But look at the bigger picture behind that system, it doesn't sound perfect but it's better than the alternative. Another suggestion on here from another school sounded much better.

lazystar
The problem with these approaches is when they're used ineffectively and there is a substantial discrepancy between what different children are rewarded for that goes beyond reasonable adjustments for each child.
For example, it makes sense to accept that a child with SEN, who struggles to sit still, would be awarded points for good sitting and attention on the carpet. It doesn't make sense that every child in the class is given a point for the same thing. Those children would be given reward points for their achievents too, but their achievements would look different.
It doesn't make sense that one child who is routinely disruptive to alway come top in the class rankings because the teacher is throwing points at them, whilst neglecting to give credit to the other students.

My experience is there will always be a minority of parents who have the attitude of the nice good children (their children) and the undeserving children. They will get annoyed if teachers tailor their approach to different children, and they get positively furious if an opportunity goes to a child they don't think makes the cut. If you spoke to these parents you'd think the whole education system revolves around children with special needs and challenging behaviour, which is laughable when to anyone in schools day in, day out.

Most parents who express concern about ineffective approaches aren't in that minority though. These parents are very reasonable and have no problem with the fact some children need rewarding for different things. They just want all children to be rewarded, celebrated and to be acknowledged. Unfortunately some teachers take the middle students for granted, whilst heaping praise on the two extremes.

Completely agree. I do understand the concept of praising a child that struggles with rules when they do comply but it often means the children who ALWAYS behave get forgotten about. Definitely pull it up with their teacher

Some children not even winning one prize in an academic year is a different issue to children with SEN needing more rewards for self esteem. The school know the numbers of children so can design systems that allow everyone to win at least once or they need to move towards personal reward systems like a previous poster mentioned so there's no class winner and children compete against themselves.