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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Not served alcohol with a meal.

336 replies

GingerFreaker · 25/05/2021 17:57

I'm slightly miffed today.

We went out to lunch. We being grandparents, myself and 19 year old grandson. We booked a table. We ordered a bottle of wine with our meal. They refused to give the strapping 19 year old a glass, because of challenge 25, and the twit did not take his driving licence.

It stupidly "spoilt" a lovely long planned meet up.

Since we can legally buy a 16 year old alcohol with a meal, am I right to be annoyed it was refused today?

A pub chain, if it makes any difference.

OP posts:
PyongyangKipperbang · 25/05/2021 21:03

Its not illegal to serve someone under 18 but for my own protection I will always ask for ID in the C 25 way.

And if I didnt, I could lose my job because we get mystery shoppers from head office who are over 18 but only just and if we dont ID them then we can be sacked.

IME its rare that anyone kicks off about it when they themselves havent got ID, its usually family or friends that they are with. Same as anyone being ID'd the only people who have ever kicked off are people who are clearly underage. Thankfully the vast majority are understanding that people in any sort of age restricted sales are just doing our jobs.

Hate to tell you but no one is important enough for me to go out of my way to piss them off!

lucyslocketinherpocket · 25/05/2021 21:03

NI cards never had DOB on them anyway (or a photo) so they're not acceptable is anyway. Mines just got name and NI number on it.

I've still got mine and I'm 36!

PyongyangKipperbang · 25/05/2021 21:05

Its not illegal to serve someone under 18

And obviously I mean over 18!!

Anonymous48 · 25/05/2021 21:08

@PyongyangKipperbang

Its not illegal to serve someone under 18

And obviously I mean over 18!!

Maybe not, but they have to be able to prove they're over 18.
StealthPolarBear · 25/05/2021 21:09

PyongyangKipperbang absolutely, no argument there. I bet challenge 25 is a great help.
I'm irritated by people spreading misinformation

TattyDevine · 25/05/2021 21:10

YaANBU

GabsAlot · 25/05/2021 21:13

i still got id'd up until 38-it is what it is

Castlepeak · 25/05/2021 21:15

This is definitely an important life lesson. Anyone who wants to acquire alcohol, even if they are 80, should have ID. The consequences to the servers and clerks are just too high for them to take any risks.

LolaSmiles · 25/05/2021 21:16

OP: AIBU
MN: Yes, YABU
OP: drip feed incoming where there's lots shouting to further prove they're not unreasonable

Sausageroll67 · 25/05/2021 21:19

@GingerFreaker

My son may be 19, but he has high functioning autism. He does not drive. He does not go anywhere without me.

Please don't assume he's out hitting the town every weekend and knows the ropes. He's not. And a wallet is a red herring as he doesn't really need one. I pay for him. Unfortunately, it was in his other jacket.

But he was a cutely embarrassed, as was I, tbh, by the way he was spoken to. And having to deal with that, in public, can spoil what should be a pleasant meet up.

Oh tough shit re all the drip drip you are giving here. Bottom line is, he looks under 25 and should have had ID to be served alcohol!
Staffy1 · 25/05/2021 21:24

That's when the waitress got shouty and threatened to remove all wine glasses if she saw him drinking any and she WOULD be watching

Bit of a jobsworth to do that. You would think as long as they didn't actually serve him alcohol they would turn a blind eye to anyone slipping some wine over to him surreptitiously. Surely they couldn't be blamed for that? Annoying that she was rude and shouty about it when you hadn't even planned to do that.

CorianderBee · 25/05/2021 21:26

I still get refused at 26 with no ID. So tell him to bring his licence.

longtompot · 25/05/2021 21:26

My yd was 19 when we went for a meal at our local Harvester, just the three of us which was a rare treat. She didn't bring her passport as she'd never needed it before as she doesn't usually drink. This time she fancied a cider with her meal. They refused to serve her the drink, even though she was with both her parents and over 18. We were a bit cross but let it be. I did however order a pudding with an extra shot of Baileys she she had a little something nice Wink

Anyway, I voted YABU for letting it spoil your evening. The important bit was getting together, not having a drink.

Iquitit · 25/05/2021 21:29

Surely the law is that it is illegal to serve alcohol to someone under 18 (16 with a meal) and challenge 25 is a best practice guideline?
I refuse to believe it is illegal not to ID an 18 year old.

A challenge policy is a mandatory condition of an alcohol license, you have to have one, and you have to show you are using it by actively challenging and recording those challenges.
Premises can be, and are, spot checked, sometimes by reviewing records and sometimes by mystery shoppers and though no, there isn't a prosecution risk as such from not IDing someone under 18, you do risk sanctions on the license for not having or using a challenge policy.
Challenge 21 and 25 are considered industry best practice, to be a responsible alcohol retailer, therefore in order to keep the licencing team happy, that's what most places adopt.

Sanctions on licenses are obviously not something you want to risk, as they can be anything from reducing your licensed hours, to a temporary ban. So understandably, most licence holders use best practice and err on the side of caution, the loss of one or two sales a week, or even a day and a stroppy customer, balanced against the license team breathing down your neck and sanctions on your license.
This is paid forward to the staff actually serving in policies that insist on being on the cautious side and punishment for those servers if they go against the policies.

It's not a case of getting your license and that's it, they are monitored and reviewed regularly.

And license teams will probably be keeping a closer eye than normal at the moment as hospitality businesses are trying to recoup losses and may be tempted to bend the rules to make money.

Iquitit · 25/05/2021 21:32

there isn't a prosecution risk as such from not IDing someone under 18,

Over 18 🤦🏼‍♀️

StealthPolarBear · 25/05/2021 21:38

Iquitit thank you, really clear. So there would be severe consequences (although not prosecution) for serving an 18 year okd without checking. That's helpful.

toocold54 · 25/05/2021 21:38

OP: AIBU
MN: Yes, YABU
OP: drip feed incoming where there's lots shouting to further prove they're not unreasonable

I’m looking forward to hearing what else the waitress did.
Maybe swore at them. Or threw the wine over the son Smile

Cbtb · 25/05/2021 21:52

Surely the whole point of having the rule about 16 yr olds with meals is to give older teens a way to try alcohol in moderation in s supervised way? Demanding ID if they look under 25 seems a bit dim as most 16yr olds probably look under 25....

Comments on here by people who work in the industry saying it’s an illegal proxy sale seem to miss the point - the law says it has to be a proxy sale - an adult must buy for the teen...the teen is knowingly under 18....

Make alcohol have this big cut off at 18 and you get 18yr olds getting totally drunk on their birthday or like in the USA going to college totally alcohol naive and trying to drink a keg of beer- glad I holidayed in france and Germany as a teen and some wine or beer with a meal with parents was normal and not at all exciting when I turned 18

Iquitit · 25/05/2021 21:59

@StealthPolarBear

Iquitit thank you, really clear. So there would be severe consequences (although not prosecution) for serving an 18 year okd without checking. That's helpful.
Yes, there could be. There's a huge emphasis on being a responsible retailer, and although you can't as a license holder be prosecuted for not using a challenge policy at all or properly, there are concequences.

In short you have to actively prove to licencing that you're a responsible retailer, or they'll stop you selling it. I think you can be fined to in some circumstances.

I also think to myself that the licencing teams have probably been on furlough for the last year more or less while places have been closed - as with everything they've probably got targets too, and so are trying twice as hard to catch places out!

Captpike · 25/05/2021 22:22

@Staffy1

That's when the waitress got shouty and threatened to remove all wine glasses if she saw him drinking any and she WOULD be watching

Bit of a jobsworth to do that. You would think as long as they didn't actually serve him alcohol they would turn a blind eye to anyone slipping some wine over to him surreptitiously. Surely they couldn't be blamed for that? Annoying that she was rude and shouty about it when you hadn't even planned to do that.

I think that legally they could be blamed for that.

But OP doesn't strike me as the kind of person who gives a shit about other people's jobs.

PyongyangKipperbang · 25/05/2021 22:32

@Staffy1

That's when the waitress got shouty and threatened to remove all wine glasses if she saw him drinking any and she WOULD be watching

Bit of a jobsworth to do that. You would think as long as they didn't actually serve him alcohol they would turn a blind eye to anyone slipping some wine over to him surreptitiously. Surely they couldn't be blamed for that? Annoying that she was rude and shouty about it when you hadn't even planned to do that.

Read my PP, I have thrown out a party of (iirc) 16 for doing just that witha 16 year old. And they were barred. I could have potentially lost my personal licence if I hadnt.
PyongyangKipperbang · 25/05/2021 22:38

They refused to serve her the drink, even though she was with both her parents and over 18. We were a bit cross but let it be. I did however order a pudding with an extra shot of Baileys she she had a little something nice

@longtompot and how did they know that she was with her parents and over 18? Because you said so? Are they just supposed to take your word for it?

Why on earth were you cross that your server was doing their job in order to not lose said job. And why are you so pleased with yourself for potentially causing major problems for the server, the outlet and the licence holder?

Mummywantsaweewee · 25/05/2021 23:02

@Staffy1 no, you aren’t to serve alcohol if you know it is being passed on to someone under 18. I had teens coming in with their mates, pick out what they want and one of them with ID come to buy… then get arsey with me when I asked to see their friends ID.
It’s not about being a jobsworth, it’s about protecting your job, your criminal record and your finances. It’s just not worth the risk and when you have explained you cannot serve someone without ID then see them being passed alcohol, you have to follow through on that decision. For all the server knows it is a test purchase and they could be sacked for not following procedure. Shame on the OP for being so disrespectful to where they were eating and disregarding perfectly straightforward rules which apply everywhere.

Cbtb · 25/05/2021 23:10

“Read my PP, I have thrown out a party of (iirc) 16 for doing just that witha 16 year old. And they were barred. I could have potentially lost my personal licence if I hadnt.
Bookmark”

But why would you have lost your licence if they were 16, having a meal and the alcohol was purchased by adults (assuming it wasn’t spirits)?

“@Staffy1 no, you aren’t to serve alcohol if you know it is being passed on to someone under 18.”
Well that’s right if it’s an off-licence or bar but not in a restaurant with a meal, where the law says parents may buy their child a drink with a meal.

It’s also not illegal to give alcohol to a child over 5 (not saying it’s a good idea) in a private home.....which kind of assumes you have purchased it at some point....

PyongyangKipperbang · 25/05/2021 23:24

But why would you have lost your licence if they were 16, having a meal and the alcohol was purchased by adults (assuming it wasn’t spirits)?

Because our premises licence was granted to include the fact that it was against company policy to serve anyone under 18. I would have almost certainly lost my job.

Just because something is legally allowed doesnt mean it is an automatic right.

Say the 16 year old concerned had drunk too much and become ill or died. I would have had to explain how come she ended up taking in wine in an establishment that does not serve to u18's. Now thanks to my actions that night, I would have a good defence that it was her parents who sneaked her the wine. But turning a blind eye? Nope. I would have been seen as culpable.