To be furious with the vet for charging £1000 for an unnecessary operation.

[tentosix]

My SIL just called in tears because their beloved dog will need to be put to sleep because it has widespread cancer.

No pet insurance, but she was happy to pay to cure her dog of a lump over it's eye which was weeping.

The vet did a biopsy and it was secondary cancer so they advised euthanasia.

SIL is distraught. She is taking a few days with the dog and arranged for next week so her DDs can say goodbye and she can process it.

So why did they do this operation to remove the lump? The dog is now in pain because of this raw wound so there is no way he can be comfortable in his last days. The vet must have suspected cancer, so why not a small biopsy and not put the dog through this as well as wasting this money.

The money isn't the issue as it would have been worth every penny if it had cured him. Now he is in pain.

The vet did a biopsy and it was secondary cancer so they advised euthanasia.

I'm confused. Did the vet just do a needle biopsy or surgically remove the lump?

Presumably the vet thought their would be a chance that the operation would work?

My dog had to have similar surgery on his bottom eyelid and the general anaesthetic is a big part of the cost (would also have been needed for a smaller biopsy) and would need to be removed for the comfort of the dog so potentially saved a second surgery. How sad though in this case, we lost our dog a month ago and it's heartbreaking.

If it was not cancer what would have been the point in doing a biopsy to find out it’s benign if it’s operable at the time of GA.
The dog would then end up with two procedures, two anaesthetics, two recoveries, two wounds and your sister would have been charged for two lots of everything. What’s the point if it could have been removed at the time with a successful outcome.

A biopsy cannot be done on a conscious dog ethically especially not near an eye.
That is unless the cancer was not diagnosed by biopsy but by some other method, as the time scale for a lab report is usually 7-10 days.

I’m also sure this would have been explained at the time by the vet as part of informed consent.

I'm sorry, how awful.

Presumably the vet was never aware of the primary cancer?
So it was only AFTER removing the lump and getting the pathologist report that they realised there was cancer at all?
This makes sense to me.

Some tumours should not be biopsied without removal as disturbing it but leaving it in situ can cause spread. The vet wouldn't have known before biopsy that it was a secondary tumor.

I really do sympathise (as we've had 2 cancerous lumps removed from our dog recently and are hoping they've caught it all) but I think what others are saying is true. It's not as cut and dried as all that.
And our bill is approaching £5K!!

Possibly your vet's crystal ball is malfunctioning

YABU completely unreasonable , the vet is hardly psychic .

Your SIL would have had all the options and best/worst possible outcomes explained to her and the opportunity to ask as many questions as she wanted prior to the surgery.

Unfortunately for your SIL's dog it has turned out to be the worst case scenario. That doesn't mean her decision to proceed or the vets advice was wrong and it won't help her to accept her dogs prognosis by getting angry with the vet, especially when you weren't there.

You say the dog is in pain, if it is, then for its sake, she should consider PTS sooner rather than later. The poor pup won't beware of what is happening or that it is a few days/weeks early, but at least he will not be suffering.

YABU

They had to do a procedure.
So like they've said above.
They only found out it was cancer after removing the lump.

A biopsy would have meant if it was treatable putting the dog under anaesthesia again.

Also maybe the vet didnt think it would be cancer

Why did they bring it round from the anesthetic with that prognosis?

There's a potential unreasonable here, but it's not what you think, and perhaps not what your sister would want to hear.

Unfortunately this is what happens if you don't have pet insurance. The vet will have sent the biopsy off to the lab for analysis which then revealed it was cancerous.

If you don't have pet insurance it's a gamble. The dog shouldn't be made to remain alive if it's suffering.

I had a similar situation but the vet told me the lump looked like cancer. She said she could do a biopsy, but that it was really unlikely to be benign and because of how quickly it had grown cancer would have spread.
I took my pet home and within a few weeks, they needed to be put to sleep. But it was a very fast-growing lump.

I can't understand why you think the biopsy was unnecessary. The eye is very vulnerable to pressure/damage from alump that might grow into it. So It was necessary to remove the lump; and then necessary to investigate if the growth was cancer or something benign.

Many vets would have to send the biopsy tissue away to a specialist medical lab for examination and diagnosis; the vet pays the lab for that service and passes the cost to the client. Meanwhile the patient is brought round from anaesthesia and cared for, waiting for the report.

It appears the cancer type, extent, stage, or location close to brain has such a poor prognosis the vet recommended not putting the dog through painful or hopeless treatment which could not save him ( even more expense for uninsured client) .

 It's unfortunate that the dog can't be saved, but that doesn't mean the operation   and the biopsy were unnecessary.  

 Nor does it mean that the vet should pay the costs of all the work done.  That's the responsibility of the owner.

Why doesn't she have pet insurance?

I honestly don't think it should be optional, pet insurance for cats and dogs should be compulsory.

Our cat has cost £7k in 4 years in vet bills. If we didn't have insurance we'd be screwed.

@DogInATent

Why did they bring it round from the anesthetic with that prognosis?

There's a potential unreasonable here, but it's not what you think, and perhaps not what your sister would want to hear.

The biopsy was probably sent away to a specialist lab. Meanwhile the patient is brought round from anaesthesia, and nursed in recovery, waiting for the biopsy report.

Much like human cancer biopsy. The type and stage of cancer is not always apparent in theatre when the lump is removed.

@ShoutingBirb

Why doesn't she have pet insurance?

I honestly don't think it should be optional, pet insurance for cats and dogs should be compulsory.

Our cat has cost £7k in 4 years in vet bills. If we didn't have insurance we'd be screwed.

Because if you have an older dog (and particularly if you rescue an older dog) the premium is high, the excess rises, the owner contribution rises, and there are lots of exclusions.

Our dog is over 8 years old, the age cut-off for most insurers. The best value quote we could get was:

• >£500/year premium (some quotes were significantly higher than this)
• £200 excess per claim
• 20% owner co-payment per claim
• Exclusions included all dental (including emergency), and several other categories too

I've had better value quotes for private medical insurance for myself!

You cant leave the dog in pain till next week. That's the bonkers bit here and really unfair to ask the vet to do that. I hope the poor dog is on extreme pain relief. Please ask your SIL to reconsider and get the dog in sooner.
Dogs should always be insured. Veterinary surgery costs a lot of money just like human surgery. You say its not the money thats the problem but your title sounds like it so please remember how much these things cost.

The vet didn't waste anyone's money. If you have a dog, then you should either have insurance or be satisfied that you can afford treatment, possibly for the long term, without insurance. The vet advised her of what was necessary to ascertain the situation, and she agreed to that and the cost. Regrettably the dog could not be saved. And she is the one keeping the dog in pain until next week - her choice to do that instead of allowing it to end its life now, for her needs and those of the family, instead of what the dog needs.

To be honest you all sound rather selfish if it is true that the dog is in pain and you are deliberately keeping it alive now. It is tragic when one loses a loved pet, but I would do anything to give my dog a chance - and I would also allow him to die with dignity the minute I knew there was no chance.

I had a lump on my leg that was removed and then checked for cancer - not sure if that is just the way things are done? The poor dog though :-( If the dog is unhappy and in pain it would be kinder if SIL had him put to sleep asap, she is the one making his last days painful IMO.

I’d love to hear the vet’s side of this story. As previous posters have said, cancer can’t be diagnosed without biopsy, and biopsy near an eye would be very stressful and potentially very painful without anaesthetic. And lab results for vets often take 7 to 10 days to come back (which incidentally is often much quicker than human results).

Your SIL can have a few days of quality time with dog, presumably he’s on pain relief, and then let him go peacefully.

Other people have already said this. The vet may have been removing a lump which was an initial cancer, in which case all would have been well. The site of the lump would have been sore afterwards but the dog would have recovered. As it was, when the lump was removed and tested, it revealed that the dog already had widespread cancer. Who knows what pain that poor dog is in? In my view the person causing the dog to have pain in its last days is your sister in law, who has chosen to prolong the dogs suffering by taking it home so she can "process" it and let her daughters say goodbye. The kind thing would have been to ask the vet to put the dog to sleep as soon as she heard how ill it was.

Surely the vet is right to give the options to the pet owner. I had a similar situation with my elderly dog, options were big op to open him up and see what was going on or euthanasia, my dog had totally given up at this point, doubly incontinent, not eating, already seen vet & had meds etc, made no difference, we chose to put him out of pain. To which she replied, if you had chosen surgery I would have tried to talk you out of it. So yes options are good, but guidance is better. But of course every owner would pay anything to save their pet.

And of course, the other thing with insurance is to make sure you go for the 'lifetime' option, so they don't stop covering repeat conditions at the end of the year.
Our premiums and contributions sky-rocketed at the first policy renewal after his 9th birthday. We were just wondering whether we might put the premiums aside each month to cover any possible needs, when we got the cancer diagnosis, so thank goodness that a fair proportion (75%) of the massive bill was covered (although there is a cap on certain consultations - we were referred to a hospital for the surgery and consultations were way over that cap).
It's an expensive old business, but the truth is that, before pet insurance 'took off' as a thing, more of us just had our pets put down when things started deteriorating. Now, we're more inclined to get them patched up if a policy will cover it.