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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be furious with the vet for charging £1000 for an unnecessary operation.

118 replies

tentosix · 25/05/2021 15:47

My SIL just called in tears because their beloved dog will need to be put to sleep because it has widespread cancer.

No pet insurance, but she was happy to pay to cure her dog of a lump over it's eye which was weeping.

The vet did a biopsy and it was secondary cancer so they advised euthanasia.

SIL is distraught. She is taking a few days with the dog and arranged for next week so her DDs can say goodbye and she can process it.

So why did they do this operation to remove the lump? The dog is now in pain because of this raw wound so there is no way he can be comfortable in his last days. The vet must have suspected cancer, so why not a small biopsy and not put the dog through this as well as wasting this money.

The money isn't the issue as it would have been worth every penny if it had cured him. Now he is in pain.

OP posts:
tentosix · 25/05/2021 21:24

@LifeinPieces21

My dog had a lump off her chest removed on Friday and it is in the process of being sent away and looked at. It's cost me £300. I'm just wondering why my bill was much less.

This was in the south of England where prices always triple because vets can get away with it.

OP posts:
tentosix · 25/05/2021 21:28

@LifeinPieces21 I live in the north so prices are much more reasonable here. Our dog didn't cost nearly that much to have a lump removed.

The pain is definitely from the raw, weeping, gungy wound. He was fine beforehand, and DsiL thought the slowing down and not liking walks so much was age. Now realise it was the cancer.

OP posts:
goshthatsawful · 25/05/2021 21:31

The pain is definitely from the raw, weeping, gungy wound

So why won’t your SIL let the poor dog go? It’s cruelty

BillyTodd · 25/05/2021 21:40

if the dog is in pain and he's not likely to improve, he really does need to be PTS immediately. I understand that your SIL is in a horrendous situation, is grieving all sorts of losses but none of those things are the dog's fault and none of them change the fact that the dog is in pain and will not recover. He is quite likely also grieving the loss of your BIL too, and getting distressed if her and her DD are upset saying their goodbyes to him. I hope you can talk your sister round into doing it first available appointment tomorrow. Flowers

Every bloody discussion about vets results in people bitching about them ripping people off but none of those people are those who have any idea of why the prices cost so much - hint, it's not because a vet or even the practice is raking it in. Hmm The equipment available to vets these days is brilliant but also very expensive, and overheads need contributing towards.

RunningFromInsanity · 25/05/2021 21:41

@goshthatsawful

The pain is definitely from the raw, weeping, gungy wound

So why won’t your SIL let the poor dog go? It’s cruelty

Probably because she’s lost her husband and the dog is all that is left of him.

I imagine it might take her a few days to bring herself to take this devastating next step.

goshthatsawful · 25/05/2021 21:53

^Probably because she’s lost her husband and the dog is all that is left of him.

I imagine it might take her a few days to bring herself to take this devastating next step^

That’s really sad but any decent owner wouldn’t be able to stand to see the dog suffering

Throckmorton · 25/05/2021 22:00

[quote tentosix]@littlepattilou. Yes, totally agree. The vets charge extortionate amounts because people love their pets so much and insurance will pay out, like car insurance, it’s always dearer.

For idiots saying midazolam isn’t feasible, and a biopsy is a major undertaking, I’m a nurse and have seen people have minor surgery and sensitive injections with it. They are rip off merchants and people know it. I’m angry at them putting this dog through unnecessary surgery, and frankly it’s bollox to say a needle biopsy will spread a cancer! They take needle biopsies from breast cancer tumours before the operate. Do they think people are stupid enough to believe that! Animal surgery is not vastly different.[/quote]
Oh, an idiot am I? Excuse me for sharing my direct experience with midazolam.

SnackSizeRaisin · 25/05/2021 22:39

@CallmeHendricks

Yes that is the only way to find out what companies are reputable and which are not. Although even the better ones can be increasingly problematic unfortunately.

I don't know which of the two amounts would be right - hopefully the former!

HerMammy · 25/05/2021 22:43

One of mine recently and 3 lumps removed from her eye, sent off for biopsy, fortunately results within 5 days; all were benign.
Vets can’t test on the spot for instant diagnosis.
The lump could well have been benign, sadly not. The vet has done nothing wrong.

SnackSizeRaisin · 25/05/2021 22:46

It is a well thought of local vets. She is healing well. Could it be because we are more up North than some? Also the lump didn't feel attached to anything and about the size of a 10p pence but a ball.

Good luck - hope it turns out to be benign.

Yes vets outside the south east are cheaper. Most things are. My child's nursery is £45 a day (north West) and my niece's nursery is £87 a day (London). So that could account for much of the difference. It reflects the difference in wages and property prices, rather than being a sign that vets in the south east are all rip off merchants!

I also wonder if your vets is an independent rather than a corporate - they often have different pricing structures. (Can be very hard to tell as most corporate owned vets still retain the original names and logos so don't appear to be part of a bigger group).

tsmainsqueeze · 25/05/2021 23:15

[quote littlepattilou]@tentosix YANBU. On these threads about vet bills, you will always get a few people on here telling you that vets should be allowed to charge what they like, as it's 'specialist care' that they have worked SO hard for, and you have all the nurses, the specialist equipment and drugs, and the electricity to pay for, along with the premises, yada yada, yada.

And the predictable comparison with the NHS comes along too. EVERY time... It's boring.

@willstarttomorrow

We also have a moggy who adopted us and is not insured. We love her to bits but she was pretty elderly when she came to us and has already had several happy years. When it comes to it we will have to make the choice to let her go.

I grew up with animals and vets have become more expensive and some of this is driven by insurance. I question whether it is sometime right to put an animal through complex treatment, although I understand why people do. Most employed vets earn very little although partners and get chains make a tidy profit.

This. Vet bills are^ extortionate at some vets, and they should be ashamed of themselves for charging so much. As the above poster said, vets have got WAY more expensive - especially over this past 20-25 years or so. And it does make you wonder if it's because they assume the insurance will pick up the bill! Although, as someone said earlier, the insurance companies often don't pay out in full!!!

Everyone I knew when I was a child/teen (30+ years ago,) had a dog or a cat, (me and my family included,) and I don't remember ANYONE getting a bill they couldn't afford to pay.

Yet these days, I rarely meet anyone who hasn't had an extortionate vet bill over this past 10 years or so. In some cases it has put them into debt, and has taken them as much as five years to pay it all off.

Just last January, my friend's dog got hit by a car, and had some bones broken, and the bill for the treatment came to £13,000! For a few hours treatment and mending a few bones! £13.000! The pet insurance wasn't worth the paper it was written on either, as the maximum claim in a 12 month period was £3,500. (It said it in the tiniest, finest smallprint, that you would need a microscope to read!)

I also have a friend whose dog had some dental treatment back in August last year. It cost £3,100! (It was not covered by the pet insurance conveniently.) The dog had to have a few teeth out, and had his gums cleaned and some plaque removed, and had some antibiotics, but that's it. My friend said 'this WILL cure the issue won't it?' The vet said 'of course.'

2 months later, the issue recurred. She took her dog back in, and they checked him over, (this took 5 minutes,) and gave him some meds, and gave her (another) bill - of £200! She said 'but should this not be covered, as I paid £3,000 for the treatment/removal of some teeth, that should have cured this?!' The vet said 'oh no there's no guarantee it won't come back!' Confused

She said she wishes she had got it in writing (from the vet) that the problem won't recur. And last week, the problem seemed to be recurring again! So that will probably be another £200 if she takes her dog to the vet again. For a 5 minute check up and a bottle of antibiotics!.

Seriously, do these vets think that if someone has a pet, that they have an endless supply of money?! Hmm

As I said, I don't remember a SINGLE PERSON having a vet bill they couldn't afford to pay when I was a child teen (30+ years ago.) I don't remember anyone getting a vet bill of more than a couple of hundred pounds.

I remember my aunt's friend having a dog who needed treatment after falling awkwardly off a 4 foot high wall. A few broken bones, some meds and a few hours treatment, and an overnight stay. It cost her £185 in 1980.

Today's equivalent price would be around £950. NOT £13,000 like my friend had to pay (as I mentioned earlier in the thread.) And the treatment was very similar. The dogs were the roughly same size dog too.

Problem is with vet fees, they are limitless. They can charge what they like, and there is fuck all you can do about it. You are powerless. At this rate, no-one will be having pets - ever, and there will be 100s of 1000s of unwanted animals/pets.

Someone (in power) needs to step in, and start regulating the Veterinary Profession. Some of them seriously need investigating. And so do the insurance companies who rarely pay out when people try to claim, unless the figure is in the low hundreds. There is always something in the small print that means they get out of paying out on claims, as much as possible. As has been said, many pet insurance policies are 'capped' so they often end up only paying a small portion of the bill. Sometimes barely a quarter.

Also as has been said, when a pet hits 8-9 years old, the insurance goes up SO high, that it's unaffordable for many. As much as £70-£80 a MONTH for one cat in some cases. I don't know why they do this. It's infuriating.

I think the prices are outrageous, and many people I have spoken to have said they will never have any more pets after their current ones die, PURELY because of the ludicrously high cost of vet bills these days. As I said, someone needs to step in and stop them charging such exorbitant fees... I can't believe anyone has the audacity to defend them to be honest. And as has been said, many of the pet insurance policies aren't worth the paper they are written on![/quote]
As the consumer you are within your right to shop around and get telephone price comparisons then seek a second opinion if that vet can do the procedure / treatment for price that is preferable .
You are not committed , you are not powerless ! , it is quite the norm to purchase a written prescription instead of the actual product from the vet and buy the product from your own source.
Vets cannot buy a lot of meds as cheap as you can online as they are not legally allowed to do so , they have to be bought from a veterinary wholesaler.
Many of the meds vets sell have to be the licensed for animal use only version which bumps up the cost a lot .
Veterinary medicine has advanced massively since the 80's there is very little comparison to todays treatments /options , i speak as someone who has worked in this field for a very long time.
When covid restrictions are lifted go and ask a local practice for a tour, most of us have nothing to hide and are willing and proud to demonstrate what we do.
You may find yourself very surprised at the complexities involved in our work and also the phenomenal costs involved in running a practice.

countrygirl99 · 26/05/2021 05:46

I'm finding it really hard to believe that A PPs friend bought insurance without realising there was a limit. It's been totally clear in every fog and horse policy I have bought for the last 25 years. Unless they only looked at the price and not what was covered which is as intelligent as randomly picking up a pack of mince and then complaining that the cheapest one doesn't contain as much meat the most expensive one.

nolongersurprised · 26/05/2021 06:18

I can’t believe the OP could think midazolam was a good idea Hmm.

Firstly, sedated humans can still move with midazolam. Secondly, dogs are a different species.

Cookies47 · 26/05/2021 06:58

If the dog is in pain & the vet has advised he needs to be PTS, your sister is BU & cruel keeping him alive for longer for her own selfish needs.

Doesn't matter how much you pay a vet, sometimes the results aren't what you want to hear. You're paying for a test result, not a cure, unfortunately.

littlepattilou · 26/05/2021 10:47

@goshthatsawful

Why won't she let the dog go, it's pure cruelty.

@RunningFromInsanity

Probably because she’s lost her husband and the dog is all that is left of him. I imagine it might take her a few days to bring herself to take this devastating next step

@goshthatsawful

That’s really sad but any decent owner wouldn’t be able to stand to see the dog suffering

@Cookies47

If the dog is in pain & the vet has advised he needs to be PTS, your sister is BU & cruel keeping him alive for longer for her own selfish needs.

All of this. ^ It's remarkably cruel to keep a suffering animal alive.

justawoman76 · 26/05/2021 15:10

Hello, I hope the dog is okay but I just wanted to say that there ARE certain tumours that should not be messed with as they can spread more rapidly. This includes mast cell tumours which are quite common in some breed of dogs, so it is NOT "bollocks" that some tumours should be removed preferably without doing too too much to them. I understand you said you had medical training but with all due respect, a dog is not a human and they suffer from quite different conditions.
I am a veterinary nurse BTW, and although I'm sure that some of our training probably overlaps, it is not the same. I'm assuming the vet was probably trying to save you the cost of two anaesthetics and two surgeries and therefore increased risk. Maybe they were actually trying to do you a favour? I'm sure you would have been annoyed if it had come back from histopathology as a benign mass which then had to be operated on for a second time.
I'm a little confused actually because in your opening post you say the vet did do a biopsy? So was it a full surgery to completely remove the lump or a small biopsy of the lump? As you know these are different things. If it was a biopsy there should be no raw/weeping wound as a small biopsy punch is used to take out a tiny core of the mass which is then closed with a couple of stitches. Certainly no huge wound?
And histopathology is always needed to diagnose a mass definitively even if the vet did 'suspect' a malignant lesion. So it sounds as if something has either been miscommunicated or the mass was indeed removed in its entirety and is now possibly infected or a suture reaction?
He should also have been sent home with post operative analgesia and if you feel he needs it before the PTS, phone the vets and ask for some.
Please know that most vets do not 'rip people off'. It's actually so upsetting to keep being accused of this in our profession. Today at work we had a bitch in for routine spaying, the vet repaired a hernia and removed some deciduous baby teeth for FREE while the dog was under anaesthetic, despite the fact that they could have charged another couple of hundred for it. They are NOT all about making money and most vets are not earning anything like what you would expect.
I hope the dog has a peaceful last few days.

MissConductUS · 26/05/2021 15:31

Oh, an idiot am I? Excuse me for sharing my direct experience with midazolam.

I think some people post with the strong expectations that all replies will be in fawning, enthusiastic agreement. Any disagreement causes severe cognitive dissonance, which presents as irritability and anger. Wecome to the internet.

I'm a little confused actually because in your opening post you say the vet did do a biopsy? So was it a full surgery to completely remove the lump or a small biopsy of the lump?

I asked the same question in the very first post on this thread and never got an answer.

TheNoodlesIncident · 26/05/2021 17:05

Do people genuinely not understand about overheads? They say: My pet needs this treatment and it cost me £XXX but this medicine only costs £X!

Vets don't work on a table in the street, do they? They have surgeries which they must pay mortgage/rent on, and rates/tax, and utilities like electricity, water/sewage, phones and internet. They need staff who need salaries plus insurances: professional indemnity, employers' liability, premises cover. They need medical equipment and computers, furniture and facilities like toilets.

I will have forgotten to mention something, but honestly, expecting just to cover the cost of a medicine is ludicrous. It's not a cheap business to run!

It is up to every individual to check insurance policies and decide for themselves if it is worth it to them. That includes reading the fine print and clarifying anything unclear with the insurers. Nobody is forced to take out a policy on a pet, are they?

Daphnise · 26/05/2021 17:48

Vets don't exist as a kind, free service.

They need to make money.

And they certainly do.

Erikrie · 26/05/2021 17:55

I'm sorry about your brother in law op Flowers

Veterinari · 26/05/2021 18:09

[quote tentosix]@littlepattilou. Yes, totally agree. The vets charge extortionate amounts because people love their pets so much and insurance will pay out, like car insurance, it’s always dearer.

For idiots saying midazolam isn’t feasible, and a biopsy is a major undertaking, I’m a nurse and have seen people have minor surgery and sensitive injections with it. They are rip off merchants and people know it. I’m angry at them putting this dog through unnecessary surgery, and frankly it’s bollox to say a needle biopsy will spread a cancer! They take needle biopsies from breast cancer tumours before the operate. Do they think people are stupid enough to believe that! Animal surgery is not vastly different.[/quote]
@tentosix ever heard the adage that a little information is a dangerous thing?

You're incredibly arrogant to think that because you've apparently nursed humans you have any idea about the effectiveness of midazolam for surgical sedation in dogs - especially in the peri ocular area. What you suggest would be malpractice.

It sounds like your SIL gave informed consent for an excisional biopsy under GA. Something which would in many cases be curative and require only one GA. what you are advocating for is multiple GAs which as cost seems to be an issue for you would potentially be problematic.

As a 'nurse' I find it strange that you're ranting on the internet about an oozing inflamed painful wound rather than seeking advice for the obvious signs of infection you are describing and to which you seem oblivious. Why haven't you sought advice and additional analgesia?

By the way - what would a private human surgeon charge for a consultation and prescription for antibiotics? Or do you think they charge cost price as per the BNF too?

Honestly, you sound clueless.

Veterinari · 26/05/2021 18:12

Out of interest @tentosix what is the diagnosis? - a peri ocular dermal metastasis is very unusual - one of many reasons why your vet would have offered excisional biopsy. I'm interested as to what cancer this was

SnackSizeRaisin · 26/05/2021 18:31

@Veterinari yes I also wondered that. Perhaps MCT as the wound has broken down? Could be some crossed wires in the communication.

Veterinari · 26/05/2021 18:43

[quote SnackSizeRaisin]@Veterinari yes I also wondered that. Perhaps MCT as the wound has broken down? Could be some crossed wires in the communication.[/quote]
Yes I suspect so

justawoman76 · 26/05/2021 18:48

Hope not a MCT as decent margins would be practically impossible in such an area? Anyway, definitely sounds like miscommunication. A shame we are referred to as 'idiots' though!

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