Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be furious with the vet for charging £1000 for an unnecessary operation.

118 replies

tentosix · 25/05/2021 15:47

My SIL just called in tears because their beloved dog will need to be put to sleep because it has widespread cancer.

No pet insurance, but she was happy to pay to cure her dog of a lump over it's eye which was weeping.

The vet did a biopsy and it was secondary cancer so they advised euthanasia.

SIL is distraught. She is taking a few days with the dog and arranged for next week so her DDs can say goodbye and she can process it.

So why did they do this operation to remove the lump? The dog is now in pain because of this raw wound so there is no way he can be comfortable in his last days. The vet must have suspected cancer, so why not a small biopsy and not put the dog through this as well as wasting this money.

The money isn't the issue as it would have been worth every penny if it had cured him. Now he is in pain.

OP posts:
Throckmorton · 25/05/2021 19:22

Midazolam would not work - the patient might be sedated but they still move around a lot - doing a biopsy like that would be terrible. The vet appears to have done all they can in the best way possible. I know the situation is upsetting but blaming the vet isn't fair.

queenrollo · 25/05/2021 19:22

Midazolam is also not effective on everyone...you'd soon be shouting if the dog had been given that and it had no sedating effect whatsoever.

Several people on this thread have pointed out why a needle biopsy isn't always the best approach for a possibly cancerous lump but clearly your indignation trumps their expertise.

Leonberger · 25/05/2021 19:31

The effects of drugs on animals vs humans are not the same.

I can also tell a human to be still and explain the situation so as not to cause distress. The same cannot be said for a dog.

But the vet is wrong as usual Hmm

Carrysymons · 25/05/2021 19:42

YABU to be furious as it's not your dog and not your bill.

You only have a second hand account from your emotional SIL of what really happened so are not in a position to judge.

littlepattilou · 25/05/2021 19:56

@tentosix YANBU. On these threads about vet bills, you will always get a few people on here telling you that vets should be allowed to charge what they like, as it's 'specialist care' that they have worked SO hard for, and you have all the nurses, the specialist equipment and drugs, and the electricity to pay for, along with the premises, yada yada, yada.

And the predictable comparison with the NHS comes along too. EVERY time... It's boring.

@willstarttomorrow

We also have a moggy who adopted us and is not insured. We love her to bits but she was pretty elderly when she came to us and has already had several happy years. When it comes to it we will have to make the choice to let her go.

I grew up with animals and vets have become more expensive and some of this is driven by insurance. I question whether it is sometime right to put an animal through complex treatment, although I understand why people do. Most employed vets earn very little although partners and get chains make a tidy profit.

This. Vet bills are^ extortionate at some vets, and they should be ashamed of themselves for charging so much. As the above poster said, vets have got WAY more expensive - especially over this past 20-25 years or so. And it does make you wonder if it's because they assume the insurance will pick up the bill! Although, as someone said earlier, the insurance companies often don't pay out in full!!!

Everyone I knew when I was a child/teen (30+ years ago,) had a dog or a cat, (me and my family included,) and I don't remember ANYONE getting a bill they couldn't afford to pay.

Yet these days, I rarely meet anyone who hasn't had an extortionate vet bill over this past 10 years or so. In some cases it has put them into debt, and has taken them as much as five years to pay it all off.

Just last January, my friend's dog got hit by a car, and had some bones broken, and the bill for the treatment came to £13,000! For a few hours treatment and mending a few bones! £13.000! The pet insurance wasn't worth the paper it was written on either, as the maximum claim in a 12 month period was £3,500. (It said it in the tiniest, finest smallprint, that you would need a microscope to read!)

I also have a friend whose dog had some dental treatment back in August last year. It cost £3,100! (It was not covered by the pet insurance conveniently.) The dog had to have a few teeth out, and had his gums cleaned and some plaque removed, and had some antibiotics, but that's it. My friend said 'this WILL cure the issue won't it?' The vet said 'of course.'

2 months later, the issue recurred. She took her dog back in, and they checked him over, (this took 5 minutes,) and gave him some meds, and gave her (another) bill - of £200! She said 'but should this not be covered, as I paid £3,000 for the treatment/removal of some teeth, that should have cured this?!' The vet said 'oh no there's no guarantee it won't come back!' Confused

She said she wishes she had got it in writing (from the vet) that the problem won't recur. And last week, the problem seemed to be recurring again! So that will probably be another £200 if she takes her dog to the vet again. For a 5 minute check up and a bottle of antibiotics!.

Seriously, do these vets think that if someone has a pet, that they have an endless supply of money?! Hmm

As I said, I don't remember a SINGLE PERSON having a vet bill they couldn't afford to pay when I was a child teen (30+ years ago.) I don't remember anyone getting a vet bill of more than a couple of hundred pounds.

I remember my aunt's friend having a dog who needed treatment after falling awkwardly off a 4 foot high wall. A few broken bones, some meds and a few hours treatment, and an overnight stay. It cost her £185 in 1980.

Today's equivalent price would be around £950. NOT £13,000 like my friend had to pay (as I mentioned earlier in the thread.) And the treatment was very similar. The dogs were the roughly same size dog too.

Problem is with vet fees, they are limitless. They can charge what they like, and there is fuck all you can do about it. You are powerless. At this rate, no-one will be having pets - ever, and there will be 100s of 1000s of unwanted animals/pets.

Someone (in power) needs to step in, and start regulating the Veterinary Profession. Some of them seriously need investigating. And so do the insurance companies who rarely pay out when people try to claim, unless the figure is in the low hundreds. There is always something in the small print that means they get out of paying out on claims, as much as possible. As has been said, many pet insurance policies are 'capped' so they often end up only paying a small portion of the bill. Sometimes barely a quarter.

Also as has been said, when a pet hits 8-9 years old, the insurance goes up SO high, that it's unaffordable for many. As much as £70-£80 a MONTH for one cat in some cases. I don't know why they do this. It's infuriating.

I think the prices are outrageous, and many people I have spoken to have said they will never have any more pets after their current ones die, PURELY because of the ludicrously high cost of vet bills these days. As I said, someone needs to step in and stop them charging such exorbitant fees... I can't believe anyone has the audacity to defend them to be honest. And as has been said, many of the pet insurance policies aren't worth the paper they are written on!

tentosix · 25/05/2021 20:12

@littlepattilou. Yes, totally agree. The vets charge extortionate amounts because people love their pets so much and insurance will pay out, like car insurance, it’s always dearer.

For idiots saying midazolam isn’t feasible, and a biopsy is a major undertaking, I’m a nurse and have seen people have minor surgery and sensitive injections with it. They are rip off merchants and people know it. I’m angry at them putting this dog through unnecessary surgery, and frankly it’s bollox to say a needle biopsy will spread a cancer! They take needle biopsies from breast cancer tumours before the operate. Do they think people are stupid enough to believe that! Animal surgery is not vastly different.

OP posts:
SnackSizeRaisin · 25/05/2021 20:16

Midazolam does not give reliable sedation in dogs. Dogs are not the same as humans.

If the vet did the operation without informing the client of the cost, then they are obviously at fault. However, vets cannot force clients to have their pets operated on. As long as your SIL was informed before it went ahead, the vet hasn't done anything wrong. Sometimes animals do get ill with incurable conditions. That is not the vets fault. But the bill still needs to be paid. A surgical skin wound that has been stitched isn't hugely painful after the first few hours so if the dog appears to be suffering I would wonder whether it is the primary cancer that is the cause.

littlepattilou · 25/05/2021 20:19

[quote tentosix]@littlepattilou. Yes, totally agree. The vets charge extortionate amounts because people love their pets so much and insurance will pay out, like car insurance, it’s always dearer.

For idiots saying midazolam isn’t feasible, and a biopsy is a major undertaking, I’m a nurse and have seen people have minor surgery and sensitive injections with it. They are rip off merchants and people know it. I’m angry at them putting this dog through unnecessary surgery, and frankly it’s bollox to say a needle biopsy will spread a cancer! They take needle biopsies from breast cancer tumours before the operate. Do they think people are stupid enough to believe that! Animal surgery is not vastly different.[/quote]
True.

Funny though isn't it, when you claim on car insurance and home contents insurance, and house insurance (bricks and mortar etc,) they would never say 'oh we will only pay a quarter of the value of your house if it burns down' or 'you know that £5000 rare gold watch you have paid good insurance money for that's been stolen? We will only give you £1300 for it.' Or 'your car was valued at and worth £6,000, but we will only pay £1,750 for it !!!'

Yet they seem to get away with it with pet insurance! £10,000 operation??? Sorry, in the SMALL print, it says you can only claim a maximum of £3,000 in one claim.

Such bullshit. Should be illegal!!! Angry

goshthatsawful · 25/05/2021 20:19

You can’t sedate a DOG and tell it to “keep very still, I’ll be finished soon” ffs. Dogs aren’t humans so your Midazolam idea is quite frankly a load of shit

LifeinPieces21 · 25/05/2021 20:22

My dog had a lump off her chest removed on Friday and it is in the process of being sent away and looked at. It's cost me £300. I'm just wondering why my bill was much less.

Orangeinmybluelightcup · 25/05/2021 20:23

@Cherrypies I was quoted £170 for blood test for geriatric cat last week. Needed to test for thyroid, diabetes or kidney issues. Does that help?

My dog needed a lump on his lower eyelid removed and assessing, under general. £450. Luckily it was benign. I agree with most of the responses on this thread about the reasons for doing it that way rather than a biopsy, I rehearsed them through with the vet before deciding to put my dog through the procedure. I'm sorry it wasn't a happy outcome for your sister in law op, it sounds like she is having a really shit time. But she needs to end the dogs suffering now I think.

SnackSizeRaisin · 25/05/2021 20:24

Needle biopsies have a much lower diagnostic rate than surgical biopsies. It depends on what tumour was suspected whether a needle biopsy is suitable. And you potentially end up needing 2 anaesthetics with the associated costs.
Breast tumours are not the same as eyelid lumps. And animals need to be fully unconscious and immobile to have surgery. It is not the same as for humans. Even for a needle biopsy, which you can sometimes do conscious in a calm animal, I would not want to do on an eyelid. It is far too risky if it jumps at the wrong moment. You could end up skewering the eye!

Floralnomad · 25/05/2021 20:24

@tentosix you do realise that dogs and humans are different , being a human nurse does not make you an authority on animal nursing . Private human medicine is expensive as well , cost me £2500 a few years back for 2 consultations and 6 blood test , I doubt my vet is that expensive .

LifeinPieces21 · 25/05/2021 20:26

My dog was fully sedated for her breast lump to be removed and she was cut open.

Titofeline · 25/05/2021 20:28

I don't think vets charge that much tbh

Carry out the same procedure on a human and it will cost double, triple up to ten fold the amount

Given a vet has to train longer than a doctor I think they are good value

SnackSizeRaisin · 25/05/2021 20:29

Yet they seem to get away with it with pet insurance! £10,000 operation??? Sorry, in the SMALL print, it says you can only claim a maximum of £3,000 in one claim.

It's up to you to check what your insurance will pay out for. I don't understand why people bother with pet insurance that only pays out £3000 per year.

However the big difference is that people want to claim off their pet insurance for every £100 bill. Whereas you only claim off car insurance for expensive things. Not every time the brake pads wear out or a windscreen wiper stops working. Therefore it's a completely different kind of insurance product. Most people only rarely claim on their car insurance and try to build up no claims bonus. But with pet insurance people want to claim as much as possible. That inevitably pushes prices up.

suspiria777 · 25/05/2021 20:31

[quote tentosix]@littlepattilou. Yes, totally agree. The vets charge extortionate amounts because people love their pets so much and insurance will pay out, like car insurance, it’s always dearer.

For idiots saying midazolam isn’t feasible, and a biopsy is a major undertaking, I’m a nurse and have seen people have minor surgery and sensitive injections with it. They are rip off merchants and people know it. I’m angry at them putting this dog through unnecessary surgery, and frankly it’s bollox to say a needle biopsy will spread a cancer! They take needle biopsies from breast cancer tumours before the operate. Do they think people are stupid enough to believe that! Animal surgery is not vastly different.[/quote]
A human can be told what to expect and asked to lie still. A dog, especially a dog in pain and afraid, cannot. Sedation is inappropriate for even some dogs' minor procedures -- my anxious rescue dog had to have GA for blood tests because she was too anxious - several shots of sedative didn't seem to do anything, she was so keyed up.

Bearyhumcrack · 25/05/2021 20:34

I don't think you're a nurse. You don't seem to understand much about drugs, surgery, or the difference between dogs and humans tbh.

hiredandsqueak · 25/05/2021 20:41

Our dog had a lump removed from her lip this time last year. It wasn't causing any problems and wasn't weeping but it looked unsightly. It was sent to be analysed (at extra cost) and we found out it was a malignant melanoma. Until it was removed the vet wasn't able to advise what the lump was though.
I'm so sorry your SIL is going to lose her beloved dog but don't think the vet removing the lump was the wrong thing to do though as they wouldn't have known the prognosis until after the op.

Mandalay246 · 25/05/2021 20:46

Why did they bring it round from the anesthetic with that prognosis?

A similar thing happened with my cat. The vet phoned to let me know and ask me what I wanted done, and I said to not bring him around - but a vet shouldn't make that decision themselves without consultation. Presumably the vet didn't realise how serious the situation was, but they can't not charge for the surgery on that basis.

Sorry OP, but I would be more furious with your sister for leaving the dog in pain so that she can "process" it.

SnackSizeRaisin · 25/05/2021 20:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MissConductUS · 25/05/2021 20:53

Sorry, in the SMALL print, it says you can only claim a maximum of £3,000 in one claim.

Lots of insurance requires copayment from the insured, and without a cap, the premiums would be much higher. See my comment up thread about loss and payout ratios.

If you're in an area with just one vet locally, I'd be worried a bit about overcharges. If there are lots of vets around their prices are probably similar. The one vet I really thought was excessively priced was the 24-hour emergency vet, but she was honest with us that our cat was stable enough to wait until our regular vet opened in a few hours.

SnackSizeRaisin · 25/05/2021 20:56

@LifeinPieces21

That sounds very cheap if it includes anaesthesia, lab fees and surgery. However as with anything you get what you pay for. I would be a bit suspicious that some corners have been cut somewhere. Perhaps they aren't using modern drugs or qualified nurses? Cheaper might be perfectly adequate but it is unlikely to be the same quality of treatment that you might get from.a more expensive practice.

CallmeHendricks · 25/05/2021 20:58

"Vets are not allowed to warn people off these companies, annoyingly."
The veterinary hospital we just went to, say in their goomph that they will deal with insurance companies for direct payment apart from followed by a list. I suppose those are the ones who are slow to pay out.

I have a cap of £5K pa, but what I haven't yet been able to find out is whether that includes the 25% I have to pay out first. So, do they pay out up to £5K and we pay the 25% on top, or do they take 25% off and only pay £3750? (not sure that's very clear).

LifeinPieces21 · 25/05/2021 21:02

[quote SnackSizeRaisin]@LifeinPieces21

That sounds very cheap if it includes anaesthesia, lab fees and surgery. However as with anything you get what you pay for. I would be a bit suspicious that some corners have been cut somewhere. Perhaps they aren't using modern drugs or qualified nurses? Cheaper might be perfectly adequate but it is unlikely to be the same quality of treatment that you might get from.a more expensive practice.[/quote]
Thank you for replying and I will think about this.

It is a well thought of local vets. She is healing well. Could it be because we are more up North than some? Also the lump didn't feel attached to anything and about the size of a 10p pence but a ball.

I'm obviously on tender hooks hoping it comes back as not cancer.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread