AIBU to not want to give rescue dog up?

[WagsPlease]

Posting here for more traffic than on The Doghouse. Also name changed as outing.

We've had a rescue dog for three weeks and he's not settling in with us at all. He basically stays on his bed all the time, looking frightened of us. He will come off to wee/poo - sometimes outside if he can make it out there before seeing any of us/ if we're out of the way. But more often when we're asleep (i.e. on the floor). He's 4. Came over from Greece. Not a street dog or mistreated, but just severely traumatised by the journey/ new environment I think.

We've had some glimmers of hope, but only when a friend has come round with her dogs. He will approach my friend and come out into teh garden and play around. He never ever does that with us - won't ever approach us. The most I've managed to get him to willingly do is take some treats directly from my hand.

We've tried everything. Ignoring him completing. Dropping treats on his bed when we go past. Trying to coax him off on a lead to wee/poo in garden. Etc etc.

The rescue have said that they have a foster lined up for him if we don't feel we can manage any more.

About 50% of my friends/ family say we should give him up to foster. The other 50% say just give him time and space and he'll come to us eventually.

My concern is that he'll never fully relax with us (it's me, DH, and DC 8 & 5) , but I also don't want to give up on him.

What do we do???

Give him time. He sounds very scared and a bit confused. Make him a safe spot, with blankets and toys that are his (soft toys are often a comfort) like you have - thunder shirts are also a comfort to some dogs. And when he is in the safe spot just ignore him.

He responded to your friend as he associated her with her dogs - it's not more complex. He doesn't know what you want and is just sussing you out - soon you will his safe person, it will just take time.

@WagsPlease do you have a front clipping harness? We were told to get one of these. The dogs often aren't used to leads, mine was petrified to be walked on a lead.
If you haven't bought a crate yet, one of the pop up fabric ones from pets at home would be a good shout - not expensive or constricting, but opaque and dark. Fold down really easily for travel. Ours didn't need it after a few months, but we did take it with us when staying elsewhere etc.
With your update, def speak to the vet about xanax or other anti-anxiety meds

@WiddlinDiddlin sorry I was summarising for brevity! The support they give on that page is amazing and it helped us so much in the early days when we were really worried. Although unfortunately some of the advice is stuff we can’t do (eg direct access to the outside from his safe spot) due to the layout of our house. (Back door is through a galley kitchen in which there is nowhere to put his bed/crate as it’s a tiny kitchen)

Ah ok, it just read a bit like 'yeah they just said....' and thats alll...

Defo speak to vet and if you tell them you have teh support of behaviour consultants (which you do, via DTAS) and would like to try some anti anxiety meds ideally something that acts fast like trazodone... you'll almost certainly have to take your dog in to see them for them to prescribe but you could video him first and see if they'd consider prescribing based on that (if its going to be a welfare issue to take him in... they miiiiiiiiiight).

If your back garden is fully secure could you risk leaving the door open at night?

Ok. I’ll try the vet. I haven’t even registered with one yet as I assumed I’d need to take him in and I just can’t see how that’s going to happen when I can’t even get him off his bed!

Can’t really leave the back door open all night - DH would fret about the security risk and it would make the whole house bloody freezing.

@WagsPlease

And yes, I’ll reconsider the crate. The challenge is how to introduce it. He doesn’t move from his bed to explore other areas of the house. He only leaves to wee/poo and only when we’re not around. There isn’t space to put the crate near where his bed is without moving his bed out the way and I don’t want to do that when he’s on it as it’ll stress him. So I need to figure out the best way to do it...

I really really wish we’d got one to start with. Hindsight and all that...

We’ve got a soft travel crate like this: www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dog_cages_carriers/folding_dog_kennels/637997

You could get one and set it up somewhere else you think works, same room as his current bed. Get another identical bed to his current one to fit in the crate, perhaps? Then I’d get fleece blankets for his current bed, and gradually swap them out into the crate when they’ve got his scent. Add some really nice treats to discover in there.

Could you ask your friend to come over when you want to do the crate stuff? Hopefully then he’d go in the garden with the dogs and you could set things up - keeping it familiar. You could even put his current bed inside the crate and give him a new bed next to it.

I know it’s early days, but he sounds like a different dog when around other dogs and wags his tail for your friend, not you. That speaks volumes even if it is early days.

I would leave his bed where it is. Another dog to accompany you on walks will help him. Dont be adventurous with the routes, he needs to learn them.
Your friend probably smells of dog and he likes that smell.
A confident established dog is usually good for helping them settle. My parents took on a retired gun dog was had been well treated all his life and he hid for a year. He still runs away from strangers but is bomb proof with small children and cats!

Have you tried dog calming music on YouTube? Seems to help my dpuppy settle so I can leave her to go to work! 2 hours maximum! She is where I left her when I get back! Sofa under the TV!

I think he needs to be with other dogs. Some dogs need another dog around. I had one that needed a doggy pal to keep them reassured everything was ok. The fact that the dog is so much happier with your friend and her dog would make me think you're not the right home. It might be kinder to let him go to foster care.

To mention also, we walked ours every day from the second day of getting him. Often early in the morning and later at night when it was quiet out. The behaviourist said we should, to get a routine. It was an achievement to get to the end of the road, and we asked other dog walkers we saw to join with their dog. Lots of encouragement, praise, offer of high value treats (altho he never took them, and still won't outside) and yes lots of waiting because we weren't allowed to force him anywhere but had to let him go at his own pace. Sometimes we just ended up standing outside letting him listen to the noises

Three weeks is nothing. My DM rescued a dog which came over from Ireland and it took him a good year and a half to start wagging his tail. It took him absolutely ages to settle in and trust humans. Don't force him to do anything, spend lots of time with him and take things slowly

Whats the rush? Ignore him for as long as it takes. He's feeling your stress and your willingness for him to interact with you and its putting him off. Like a child being stared at by adults wanting them to "perform". Literally just ignore him, learn to relax with him around, go about your normal day, he will come around in his own time, as long as he is safe and cared for and respected the rest will come. I second PP suggestion to make him a safe space

I wouldn't try and walk him outside of the house at this stage, he needs rest and time to learn to trust.

Then start with lead walks in his garden and around the house before going out the front.

Once ready for the front pick a nice easy route and stick to it, mix it up by crossing the road either way back for different sniffing, it's not about exercise at this stage just familiarity with their safe areas.

Once this is established you can move to the car for a field or woodland walk but that was months and months later.

Biggest regret I had with my Romanian rescue was pushing her too quickly to walk through town. She heard trolleys and hid under a car

Way too early! My mum rescued a chihuahua and it was about a year until she felt most at home.

Was he a stray dog in Greece? He’s probably freaked out about being indoors. I had two dogs who were strays (lived abroad) they never wanted to come in the house. They slept in the front porch, with the door open, about twice a year when the temperature got really freezing. The rest of the time they never came in the house. They liked other dogs and roaming around freely doing dog things (mating, fighting, eating yucky stuff). They did tolerate a collar after a few months but never a lead. They wouldn’t go in a car or to a vets. They would have struggled with an English dog lifestyle.

I know this might sound a bit daft, but could your friend put a fleece blanket in her dogs bed for a couple of days and then give it to you to put in your dogs bed, so he has happy dog smell around him ?

I’d certainly give him more than 3 weeks! But I also wouldn’t rehome a rescue with young children, not a good idea for any of you or the dog unfortunately

stop chucking treats! If he has been stoned, kicked, hit he is likely to interpret sudden flying objects as a scary antagonistic threat. The same with any sudden movement. He may find eye contact very threatening.

If he's been confined, then staying in one place is all he knows. Don't let the kids pester him in bed. It's his retreat.

He probably doesn't understand a single word of English ( I'm not joking).
So use on;y a tiny number of verbal communications until he begins to recognise a few words.

Ask your friend for a sweaty unwashed teeshirt as he likes her doggy smell and might find it reassuring in his bed.

The fact your friend easily gets through to him means he is reachable; you just need to give him more time.

When the kids are in bed and you're sitting quietly in the evening, bring his bed near your feet, encourage him into it then just leave him alone to relax close beside you.

If he's more comfortable with your friend and her dogs could u have her drop her dog off for half an hour and see if he models the dogs interaction with you?
It might be a case of he's comfortable with dogs and is responding to your friend due to her bringing the dogs into his space and carrying their scent.

I have befriended a lot of stray Greek dogs in the 30 years I have had a little house there and did keep one and brought it to uk. I advise just maintaining a calm household around the dog - if possible, no shrieking, shouting, running indoors, no sudden movements near him and avoid loud noises (clattering plates etc, dropping things, slamming doors). My dog remained terrified of gunshots so watching war or cowboy films had to be with volume down in fight scenes. ( In the Greek countryside the hunters take potshots at cats and dogs for fun). I find chatting in a quiet conversational tone to the dog about anything while not looking directly at him makes him relax. Just don't let him think anything is required of him and he will be much happier. Think of it as if you are talking to a pot plant! If you stop looking for appropriate reactions and he senses you are not expecting anything of him, he can let down his guard. Nice Greeks speak to their animals with great love and kindness in their voices. Honestly, I don't think actual Greek words are necessary. (My Greek dog understood phrases in English, Hindi, Indonesian and Greek in the end). It is all in the tone of voice. I suspect your friend exuded an unhurried, calm and kindly aura so he felt safe with her. It may be that because you are feeling worried about his shyness, you are giving out a bit of tension inadvertently. If he does something good he will probably understand a gentle "Bravo! " (Yes, Italian, but the Greeks adopted it from them during the Italian occupation and use it a lot). Eventually, you will get there.

@SmallPrawnEnergy

This seems very strange. We rescued and overseas dog and it was made VERY VERY clear to us the dispositions of these dogs, you seem, sorry to say, clueless. We were sent endless information on settling in periods, how a lot of these dogs are nervous around men and children, how they won’t move out of their crate / safe space for months etc. Either you’ve not taken in any of this information or the “rescue” has failed you.

You said you don’t mind it taking time but seem aghast it’s been 3 weeks and the dog has made no improvement. You don’t seem to understand how long it can take for a dog to adjust or how long it can take did a dog like this to be healed from their past trauma.

The reason your friend is probably having more success is because they have dogs, if they came over with their dogs, your dog will see your friend isn’t a threat. Your friends demeanour will be completely different too and your dog will be picking up on your subtle annoyance, anger or frustration at the dog not settling in.

I would suggest, for the dogs sake, returning him to the rescue and never getting a rescue (or dog) again.

Are you reading a different thread to the rest of us?

Poor wee thing. As others said, give him (a lot) more time! Sending him elsewhere would just be more stress and upheaval for him and he’s not had the chance to settle in her

You should expect a rescue dog to take months to settle in rather than weeks. If you're lucky it's sooner rather than later but that's the exception rather than the rule. The reason your dog perked up when your friend was around with her dogs is because they mirror the other, more confident, dogs body language. You need to understand that it's not about you, it's about them. I'd recommend, giving them space, only fussing them on their terms when they come to you and keeping the environment as calm and relaxing as possible. Make sure they've got a good safe space to retreat to. They will eventually start to recognise that you don't mean them harm and things should improve. They're confused and uncertain due to the big changes they've been through, but patience and understanding will pay off in the end.

Three weeks is far too early to consider rehoming him. Rehoming him because you think he doesn’t trust you, is this really the real reason? Poor dog.