AIBU to not want to give rescue dog up?

[WagsPlease]

Posting here for more traffic than on The Doghouse. Also name changed as outing.

We've had a rescue dog for three weeks and he's not settling in with us at all. He basically stays on his bed all the time, looking frightened of us. He will come off to wee/poo - sometimes outside if he can make it out there before seeing any of us/ if we're out of the way. But more often when we're asleep (i.e. on the floor). He's 4. Came over from Greece. Not a street dog or mistreated, but just severely traumatised by the journey/ new environment I think.

We've had some glimmers of hope, but only when a friend has come round with her dogs. He will approach my friend and come out into teh garden and play around. He never ever does that with us - won't ever approach us. The most I've managed to get him to willingly do is take some treats directly from my hand.

We've tried everything. Ignoring him completing. Dropping treats on his bed when we go past. Trying to coax him off on a lead to wee/poo in garden. Etc etc.

The rescue have said that they have a foster lined up for him if we don't feel we can manage any more.

About 50% of my friends/ family say we should give him up to foster. The other 50% say just give him time and space and he'll come to us eventually.

My concern is that he'll never fully relax with us (it's me, DH, and DC 8 & 5) , but I also don't want to give up on him.

What do we do???

You need more time really, it will take at least 3 months to get the dog settled in. We have a rescue dog and she was badly abused. It took her nearly a year to settle with us. Still very distrusting of men. They really need time to get to know you, i have a rescue cat the past two years, and its only in the past 6 months he has really come out of his shell and is now a changed cat . He would never come up to allow us to stroke or sit beside us just come into the room and look at us. You need patience and time.

There's a really good Facebook group called dog training advice and support. They have specific guides for rescue dogs and you can ask the admins (all professional trainers) for advice. Sounds to me like he needs more time to settle but I'm not an expert!

@Dogfan yup I’m a member of that site and have asked on there. The advice was to completely ignore him...

I think 3 weeks is too fine. I used to have rescue greyhounds and friends still do. I'd say it would on average take a couple of months for a dog to come out their shell and feel they can trust someone.....

He’s only reacting more with your friend because she smells of her dog.

We adopted a Romanian dog. She was a strange mixture of a terribly frightened dog and a super friendly dog. It took nearly six months before she stopped weeing if someone approached her. She’d also run over to people wagging her tail, then wee when the bent down to stroke her. We were lucky that we had two other dogs so she intergrated with them first and followed their lead.

Just give it time. You will get there at some point. Giving up will just put him through even more stress being rehomed.

Have you been able to get him out on walks with other dogs?

We rescued 2 dogs (from this country) one was at home and bouncy the minute she came through the door, the other one we just thought was a bit of a misery. Turned out he was just very sensitive, it took a good three months for him to settle but then his personality came out and he was the most loving dog.
I would definitely give it more time, try to have a routine that is the same everyday for him and have very low expectations. It may be that your friend was very calm and confident around him as a dog owner herself, whereas you and the children as new owners might be more excited/anxious, she probably also smelt of dog which might have been reassuring to him. Don't take it personally or to mean you are not right for him! (although it sounds asthough a home that already had dogs might have been helpful to him).

3 weeks is nothing. Our rescue hid in the corner for months, head against the wall, to the point that we thought she was brain damaged.

We have had her for five years and she is still changing. Even up to last year she wouldn’t come out of her crate when the children were in the house. She now does if it’s quiet. Only I can let her off lead, ever. For the first two years she wouldn’t toilet in the garden and had to be walked every time she needed a wee. She has run away. She’s been extremely hard work and I do think she would have been better in a home without children.

She has been prescribed Prozac which has made a massive difference to her. But it’s taken years. She has quality of life, enjoys walks and follows me when it’s only me at home. But three weeks is nothing at all.

Give the dog time, to settle and get used to you I'd say 6 months min before considering other options

My daughter has a foreign rescue. It took quite a while for her to get used to everyone. It’s only my daughter at their house so it was a bit easier but when we visited the dog was super nervous. She’s wonderful with other dogs, super sociable but with people, even after a year, she still quite wary for a while. I’d give the dog more time, just doing what you’re doing x

[quote WagsPlease]@Dogfan yup I’m a member of that site and have asked on there. The advice was to completely ignore him...[/quote]
Yes I'd agree with this, we were told the same with our Romanian street dog. It feels cruel at the time, but without us focussing on him at all he'd gradually feel he could come closer and closer. It took a few months but he's awesome now, loves children, loves other dogs, cuddles us on the bed and sofa. Still not great with other adults, but likes close family and friends.

Give him some time. He's still decompressing. One thing that did really help us was a good dog daycare. Even a day a week to hang out with other dogs. I had to carry him in to the trial session trembling and shaking, and was thinking it might be the worst idea. But the minute he saw all of the dogs running and playing, he was off jumping around, play wrestling, running - was the first time I'd seen him enjoy anything! And he hated the park etc at this stage. Might be worth a try.

The other thing which has helped us, which we still use occasionally for firework season and storms, is Xanax. Speak to your vet. I delayed and delayed on giving him this, but should have done it earlier, as short term use really takes the edge off their anxiety

Awhhh bless him. It will take time, I know you said he wasn’t abused before but he may not have had much human contact. I would say a crate would probably make him feel more secure(don’t lock him in there just open with blankets over)

He will probably be able to sense your anxieties over him which your friend doesn’t have so that would make sense, it’s only been 3 weeks but don’t try and flog a dead horse as it were, try and reach out to some other specialised rescues to see if they can give you some support.

This seems very strange. We rescued and overseas dog and it was made VERY VERY clear to us the dispositions of these dogs, you seem, sorry to say, clueless. We were sent endless information on settling in periods, how a lot of these dogs are nervous around men and children, how they won’t move out of their crate / safe space for months etc. Either you’ve not taken in any of this information or the “rescue” has failed you.

You said you don’t mind it taking time but seem aghast it’s been 3 weeks and the dog has made no improvement. You don’t seem to understand how long it can take for a dog to adjust or how long it can take did a dog like this to be healed from their past trauma.

The reason your friend is probably having more success is because they have dogs, if they came over with their dogs, your dog will see your friend isn’t a threat. Your friends demeanour will be completely different too and your dog will be picking up on your subtle annoyance, anger or frustration at the dog not settling in.

I would suggest, for the dogs sake, returning him to the rescue and never getting a rescue (or dog) again.

I agree with previous posters saying it's early days. We have a Romanian rescue and a UK rescue dog (and children). We were advised with both to offer a crate. For the most part this was just left open but it was their safe space. They live(d) just in one room with direct access to the garden for toilet visits at first. In our case, this is the kitchen which meant there were people popping in and out, but they had a lot of alone time. Our Romanian rescue was so quiet we didn't know we had him for weeks. He just went in the garden for the toilet, ate and then sat in his crate facing away from us. Our UK rescue did the same for a few days and then decided to chew everything in sight and howl (so be careful what you wish for!). I also had the wobble with both dogs about whether we had done the right thing and whether to take them back. I was told 3 months to settle in and so I decided to wait 3 months, and by that time both of them were like different dogs and we were all much happier!

I should add that at 3 months, we were still a long way from the dogs we have now (3 and 4 years later) but I could see progress and felt confident we could make it work.

Too early yet..

Offer a crate, half covered, in a place he might choose to go to, and keep leaving treats just inside it.

Ignore, and by that i mean walk past, drop sausage, keep going, no eye contact, no talking.

Please ignore the person suggesting you are rewarding him for being scared, as that is not actually possible, they clearly do not understand dog behaviour or how dogs learn.

I would also speak to your vet and see if they would offer anti anxiety meds - i really detest the trend of waiting until things are horrifically bad before offering medical support for anxiety/fear based stuff!

Thanks everyone for your encouragement and especially the stories of your dogs that struggled at the beginning but eventually settled in. It gives me hope

Our rescue was very reclusive for the first 3 months, we had to completely ignore him (apart from taking him on walks/feeding). He was 4 years old when we rescued him and had come from a home with an elderly owner with other dogs, we are a family of 4 with 2 small children at the time and no other dogs. Initially he was very wary of us after the first 2 months he took more of an interest in us, It took him a whole year to show us his true personality, it was totally worth the wait!! He brought us immense joy for 10 years, we miss him terribly. Give him time and patience I’m sure it will be worth it.

And yes, I’ll reconsider the crate. The challenge is how to introduce it. He doesn’t move from his bed to explore other areas of the house. He only leaves to wee/poo and only when we’re not around. There isn’t space to put the crate near where his bed is without moving his bed out the way and I don’t want to do that when he’s on it as it’ll stress him. So I need to figure out the best way to do it...

I really really wish we’d got one to start with. Hindsight and all that...

I would be wary that his stress is partly as a response to the children. As you see behaviour changes in the next three months I would be very cautious of child and dog interactions. I agree that you need longer - 3months minimum but it could still be that this dog needs a less busy house.

It sounds as if he is making progress though. He’s not peeing with fear any more, he’s been approachable to your friend. I’d be reluctant to give up when time and patience might still work wonders.

I’m a cat person myself so this might be a mad idea, but could you (and DH/DC) try giving your friend’s dog big cuddles so you smell a bit more doggy? And maybe borrow a couple of friend’s dog’s blankets to have on the bed and other places around the house.

@WagsPlease totally worth the wait! We had a wobble also, felt like we were doing everything wrong. Have got to know a lot of rescue dogs through ours / dog walking, dog daycare etc and they're beautiful dogs but the adjustment phase can take a while. We absolutely adore ours and couldn't be without him. Thinking of getting a second street dog, but trying to work out if we can afford two lots of dog daycare 2-3 days a week

Also, invite your friends dog over if she doesn't mind.

Oh and he doesn’t go on walks because he won’t come off his bed when we’re around. If I clip a lead on him he point blank refuses to move. And I won’t force him as that will undo what trust we’ve built.

I know this because at the beginning we were kind of lift-shuffling him off his bed out to the garden (on the advice of the rescue) but we realised quickly it was completely not the right thing to do (he weed in fear when we were moving him and was too scared to wee or poo outside anyway) and I expect set us back massively in terms of gaining his trust

A couple of points:

1. as you mentioned, peace and quiet are really important at the start. He is scared and needs somewhere he knows nobody will get to him and he can relax. A 'den', even a crate with a blanket on the top and sides, will help. Stick a few soft blankets in there, a toy or two, and he may choose to go there.

1. Get a behaviourist to come to your house and observe. It's one thing to relay things to them, another for them to see them first hand.

1. Can you join a local group of doggy people and then maybe have someone bring their dog for the day so your can socialise and have a sniff around your place, alongside the other dog?

1. Has your dog been checked by a vet to ensure he's not in pain? Is he eating and drinking OK?

1. We've had rescue dogs for twenty years (we have four at the moment) and some take longer than others to settle. Get a behaviourist to build a plan and stick to that. If after another month things are still very difficult you may need to think about whether this dog would be better off with an adults-only household with a second dog, for example.

In any case, best of luck :-)

Btw... no you were not told simply to ignore him over on the Dog Training Advice and Support group, you were actually given quite a lot of help.

I still think a chat with your vet (I'd get some video of him, but do not push him to exhibit serious fear to achieve this of course) about anti anxiety meds. I do think he needs some help there.