AIBU to think that child maintenance is actually very unfair to the RP?

[ECJW]

Just a thought I had due to speaking to my ex about costs for our DD and it hit me, NRP only have to give up a certain % of their incomes a week even though they don’t have to think about or incur any of the day to day costs of having children...

AIBU to think that it’s unfair that RP gets the brunt of paying for most of these things?

It occurred to me that even if ex paid £180 a month that it would only be covering DD’s packed lunches and a couple of extra bits and that’s it... that’s without normal groceries for her, drinks, clothes she might need, shoes she might need, school costs, activities and everything else...

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is an appropriate amount of child maintenance for one child when NRP has no other children to support?

I am strongly of the belief that the part time/non existent parent(s) should legally have to be involved with 50% of all costs with children.

@ohthejoy21 Yes, I don't get it. The children are 50% theirs.

50% of the decisions they want to make for their children or that their ex does?

Housing costs, supermarket vs designer clothes, no hobbies vs music and sports, caravan holiday vs long haul twice a year, private or state school, all have a massive impact on what the costs of bringing up a child end up being.

Do you mean the RP can decide what they think is best, no matter the cost, then send the NRP a bill for half?

@ArgyleIsle

Yep, my ex has two children with me. In calculating his maintenance he was allowed a percentage deducted because his partners child lived with them. (50/50).

The amount of the reduction for one child, (that wasn't even his), was more than he had to pay me for both of his own children.

The amount didn't even cover their dinner money per month.

Ridiculous. ( and even more galling was the fact that his partners child also lived 50/50 with his dad, dad, earned over £100,000 per year).

That's awful

My ex pays £36 a month but he earns £100k a year. He is self employed .

I've been to court.

It just gets added to the 10k debt.
It's disgusting.

I am lucky I don't need it.

There doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it either. I've tried and tried and tried.

I would love a thread from someone from the csa to help explain the issues they have and why it's so hard to get the self employed to pay.

@ohthejoy21

I am strongly of the belief that the part time/non existent parent(s) should legally have to be involved with 50% of all costs with children. If any residential parent brought up their child with the same financial requirements they would be charged with neglect

Yes I agree. But if that was the case, the csa just is never looked into is it or enforced or anything really.

It's never followed up. Never looked into, never bother with. It's vile.

I get £70 a month less than cm amount and he tries to knock it down if he can. CMS don’t care he’s paying less and tell me to be grateful I get anything at all. I’ve tried asking for attachment of earnings and keep getting told no at every point. I’ve given up.

It doesn’t even cover her extra curricular activities that help with her sn let alone food, clothes, shoes etc which he also expects me to provide for his house.

So I have to work more and spend less time with DD to cover it which he also throws in my face whenever he can...

[quote 5zeds]@ECJW if you’re not getting DLA I would guess you should be. As the oddly focused previous posters have stated this is not certain but given you’ve achieved diagnosis, have a child who is in nappy pants, has a highly selective diet and very sensitive skin, I’m pretty sure you would qualify. If you haven’t can I suggest you visit the SN boards and ask for advice on how to apply.[/quote]
Agree with this, and once DLA is awarded it often significantly increases other benefits too. I've rarely known a child not be awarded it for autism if needs are significant.

Non payment of support should incur a criminal record/jail time/loss of privileges such as a driving licence and passport.

I get £4 a day from their deadbeat father. I'm unable to work as they both have significant additional needs. Whilst he gets to swan around and build his career unencumbered by any responsibility while I face old age in poverty.

Its criminal. It's no wonder a lot of women hate men.

One of my dc needed to do an activity they hated. (SN support wise that was necessary).

We (my exh and I), ended up saying that Dc would get expensive clothing item they wanted if they co operated and attended the course. It was over a six month period. Exh agreed to pay half for this item in addition to maintenance.

So it ended and I bought said item.

He then told me he wasnt going to pay half as he gives me enough maintenance and it can come out of that because it is for shoes and clothes.

I told him its not just for that, its for food and clubs and mobile phones and internet and electricity etc.

He half heartedly agreed but said wasn't going to give me the extra money.

Thats the last time I go halves with him on anything.

I have never spent that much on that particular item on myself in my life. I told dc that I will not be paying that much for said item or similar again.
🙄

Yes it is.
Out of all the single friends with DC there is one who has an added agreement to bank €20 weekly to cover Christmas birthdays and sports this was by court order they've 50/50 custody too so no weekly maintenance.
The others are juggling jobs, childcare, expenses on the minium maintenance with little time off.

Thats the last time I go halves with him on anything

Same here for my brother. His DD was desperate to do a couple of activities, music lessons and dance. His ex came to him, said dd had put her name on the waiting list, and that he’d need to pay half. To her, and she’d pass if on.

Of course DB agreed, and duly paid. Only to find months later that he mum had never signed her up.

Happened many times. In the end he had to find drop in activities, as even if he signed her up and paid completely, she wouldn’t let her go on weekends.

Doesn't keeping the kids amount to anything? I'd be devastated if I lost full custody of my kids

@Macncheeseballs

Doesn't keeping the kids amount to anything? I'd be devastated if I lost full custody of my kids

No, people always seem to whine that they do so much more and they have the kids all the time and do all the 'boring' bits of parenting but I would imagine the vast majority of these posters never considered anything else but having the kids ft.

Certainly whenever I've asked before I've been shot down.

@Macncheeseballs

Doesn't keeping the kids amount to anything? I'd be devastated if I lost full custody of my kids

I would too but the majority of men don't feel the same in my experience, I don't know any men that have requested 50/50 after a divorce. My own ex didn't want 50/50 because he couldn't do his well paid job if we did that.

No I don't think it's unfair. It's 20% of total earnings in most cases and when you have multiple children it adds up. The money we pay could cover a whole new mortgage! And I don't begrudge it because the children need supporting financially but I certainly wouldn't pay more. Unless it was something they needed for their health. When they come to ours there is a financial cost of having space, furniture, clothing, food, activities, petrol just as much as at home, but we cover the costs at their home!

I would too but the majority of men don't feel the same in my experience, I don't know any men that have requested 50/50 after a divorce. My own ex didn't want 50/50 because he couldn't do his well paid job if we did that

My brother asked for RP. He had a flexible job (self employed) and did a big share of the parenting, all school drop offs, bedtimes, taking to swimming etc.

Got told “i am not paying you to take my kids off me”. He asked his solicitor who told him courts always award residency to the mother, and he’d have to prove neglect, drink, drugs etc

He was suicidal about divorcing and only seeing his kids EOW. Not what he became a father for.

Bear in mind some women choose between the money and care. The more you allow your kids to see their dad the less money you get.

We’re back to the womans role being to raise kids while men work. Until society makes it more equal it will always fall to the woman. And if you asked many women, me included, i don’t actually want that to change as if we did split the current default where the woman keeps the kids and stays in the family home- well I wouldn’t want to change that.

My issue with child maintenance service is their attitude to the paying parent and against the RP. My ex was paying every month through deduction of earnings, CMS said he had proved he will pay (they took it directly out of his wage before he got paid) so could pay me direct! Every month since has even been late or at a reduced amount. I've spoken (several times) to them, they aren't doing anything. He's also had over a year of not paying towards hefty arrears and they won't ask him to pay extra. And then to top it off, the latest review shows yet another child he is paying for through bloody CMS! That's 4 with 3 women eldest is 11. He doesn't see 3 of them. Don't know his relationship with the new one.

Dp asked for 50/50 and was treated that he would never see his child again if he persued it. He was also threatened that his ex would have him killed if he took her to court. That was a fun experience.

Not all men are as shit as some on here.

Non payment of support should incur a criminal record/jail time/loss of privileges such as a driving licence and passport

I agree but it should apply to both resident and non resident parents who fail to financially support their children themselves (not via benefits as that’s tax payers doing it not the parents).

50/50 should also be given far more by the courts.

If penalties were in place more children would be better off, less would be born as people would have to think very carefully about how many they could afford both in current circumstances and if things changed so has the added benefits of aiding climate resources, state monies etc.

@reallyreallyborednow
That is really unreasonable of your brother's ex. Very frustrating for him.

@Waxonwaxoff0
Yes. I have to work round exh shift pattern. It annoys me because he moans he doesn't see them enough but if something comes up he ditches them. Eg to watch football on tv or a date or to visit his family. (I dont think my dc have seen his family since Christmas 2019 and they are not the other side of the country or anything).

He never has them overnight. They tried it once and it was a disaster, a couple of years ago. I had to go and collect them as kids were so distraught. He and dc all agreed not try it again.

In fact the longest he has them is an 8 hour stretch. Mostly it is 3-6 hours at a time. They are teens now. As I said one of them has SN. He provides them with a meal, and occasional day out. He does not buy clothes or anything else they need.

I worked out the other day on average the maintenence covers about a third of their monthly costs. Which is better than a lot of people who have posted on this thread and in general population. But it doesnt even cover half of what they need.
And still he begrudges paying it and told me several times he cant wait to stop and I know that if it was not a legal requirement the DC would get nothing from him.

When my parents divorced, my own father wouldn't go through CMS because he wanted to pay more towards our upbringing than the bare minimum and he paid the higher sum to my mum monthly. I find it so sad that there are men who actively try to pay less than the minimum. Must be so hard to swallow that your kids father is screwing them out of money

My brother asked for RP. He had a flexible job (self employed) and did a big share of the parenting, all school drop offs, bedtimes, taking to swimming etc. Got told “i am not paying you to take my kids off me”. He asked his solicitor who told him courts always award residency to the mother, and he’d have to prove neglect, drink, drugs etc

When was this? Because with involved parents and no other issues, 50/50 is a starting point in the courts these days. The Father for Justice bs is driven largely (though I'm sure not entirely) by people who for good reason don't have main custody. The man I know who is involved with them has no unsupervised access because he beat his ex black and blue - but you'd never know that from his social media, which is all about how his kids are his life.

Of course most men aren't like that and I'm sure your brother isn't either, but even among decent dads lot of the supposed prejudice.against them getting residency these days is talked up by.men who.didnt want 50/50 but feel a bit embarrassed about it. My ex is one of them.

I don't think there is any now system that would work perfectly.

I don't defend anyone who refuses to pay, or lies about their income, or deliberately keeps it low in order to avoid or minimise their child support payments, but the previous arrangements weren't great either.

My step child is in their 40s so obviously it's a while since we paid child support. I say 'we' because my earnings were taken into account when calculating what my husband owed. If we had had a new child it would have made no difference to the payments we made (unless my income had dropped) and it is no coincidence that I didn't have a child until my stepchild was 18 and we stopped paying child support.

What was particularly galling was that the amount we paid made no difference to the child because the whole amount was deducted from the benefits received by my husband's ex and her new family (neither she nor her new partner had paid jobs and they had young children of their own, as well as my husband's child, living with them.

The only advantage was to the taxpayer, because although my husband should have been responsible for only member of the family, we were paying well over half of the benefits they received.

www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/courts/judge-tells-farmer-you-treat-your-cows-better-than-your-children
You'll go to jail for flat out refusal in the family court in Ireland.
There isn't much you can do for NRP who hide cash and earnings.