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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to think that child maintenance is actually very unfair to the RP?

592 replies

ECJW · 21/05/2021 19:16

Just a thought I had due to speaking to my ex about costs for our DD and it hit me, NRP only have to give up a certain % of their incomes a week even though they don’t have to think about or incur any of the day to day costs of having children...

AIBU to think that it’s unfair that RP gets the brunt of paying for most of these things?

It occurred to me that even if ex paid £180 a month that it would only be covering DD’s packed lunches and a couple of extra bits and that’s it... that’s without normal groceries for her, drinks, clothes she might need, shoes she might need, school costs, activities and everything else...

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is an appropriate amount of child maintenance for one child when NRP has no other children to support?

OP posts:
Naunet · 22/05/2021 10:33

You’re not wrong OP, it’s disgusting, the 4 billion owed in unpaid child support was recently halved because 2 BILLION was simply written off.

It won’t change though until women start leaving their kids with their fathers and skipping off to start a new life, paying minimal child support. And that won’t happen because women in general, actually want to be with their kids.

reallyreallyborednow · 22/05/2021 10:35

Of course most men aren't like that and I'm sure your brother isn't either, but even among decent dads lot of the supposed prejudice.against them getting residency these days is talked up by.men who.didnt want 50/50 but feel a bit embarrassed about it. My ex is one of them

50:50 wasn’t possible as they live in an expensive area of the SE. She got him out by asking him to stay with our parents to give her “some space”, changed the locks and moved OM in.

So db is sleeping on the sofa at mums. One bed flat. Too far for school runs. So kids are on the floor when they do stay.

That and ex wouldn’t allow 50:50. She had plenty of support from her family so preferred taking the CM.

When dd was older she actually got a school place near her dad’s new place and was going to stay m-f and go to her mums at weekends. Mum guilted her in to going somewhere else. If she stayed more than a couple of nights a week she started on the “can’t come, has homework/family thing”.

I know lots on here start with “should fight” for access etc but that just put dd in the middle and made her choose between parents. So db backed off.

SingleDontWantToMingle · 22/05/2021 10:42

@RickJames

I think the British system is really unfair. Especially the part about not counting new partners earnings. How a father (or mother) is allowed to live the life of Riley off a new partner and contribute a tenner a week is a disgrace. We used to pay about 800€ pm for DHs kids (adults now) but would buy bikes etc or split costs for school trips too. We are overseas and don't see them often so the least we can do is support them. Obviously still plenty of contact but DHs ex did the actual raising. Frankly, given the animosity between her and DH it was probably for the best - we also think she did a good job!

It beggars belief that RPs have to pay most costs and that this seems to be endorsed by the government.

DH ex has and always had a new partner who was also paying into their house and his (local) parents took care of after school/ holiday cover. Seeing as how neither couple was skint we just divided extras up and it worked pretty well.

Some of these support payment amounts are insulting!

Expecting a new partner to contribute to the costs of bringing up a child that isn't theirs is just greedy and self entitled.
ElderMillennial · 22/05/2021 10:46

It can probably be unfair both ways at times. It's difficult for the CMS to come up with a calculation that is "fair" for everyone. It has to take account of the NRP's income just as a parent's contribution to their child would depend on their income.

1Micem0use · 22/05/2021 11:02

I gave my childs father a link to the child maintenance calculator and he uses that to make contributions each month. (Lives abroad is doing so voluntarily). What I didnt realise at the time was how absolutely rubbish the amount the NRP is expected to contribute. So hes convinced hes contributing the appropriate amount, but in reality it's a drop in the ocean.

1Micem0use · 22/05/2021 11:22

Should add I havent mentioned this to him, as I'm just far too embarrassed too. After all I'm the one who sent him the gov link and described it as a fair way of working things out

Happycat1212 · 22/05/2021 11:42

There are definitely men that try to get out of paying, when I asked my ex for maintenance after we split he said “you don’t have kids to get paid”. 😂

Aalvarino · 22/05/2021 11:55

I believe that the courts already have power to take away driving licenses and passports for non-payment of CM. I'd be interested to know how often they do so..

lolitalola · 22/05/2021 13:43

@ECJW

DD has autism and therefore only eats certain things for lunch - a lot of the pre packed things that aren’t cheap - plus I said and a few extras - she still wears nappy pants due to her autism so these are very expensive and can only use certain brands for her skin due to skin irritation so these can cost up to £50 a time for a wash, shampoo, lotion, etc
Do you not get DLA to help with the extra's?
NOTANUM · 22/05/2021 14:24

YANBU

Factor in childcare and it is shocking. All expenses should be split down the middle.

BeyondMyWits · 22/05/2021 14:38

My dad moved in with his other woman and got her to support him through 4 years of uni... so that he did not have to pay CM for us 4 kids. It was a carefully thought out strategy. He was an arse and died alone.

Lili132 · 23/05/2021 03:01

Foster parents often are not allowed to have a job.

KarmaNoMore · 23/05/2021 06:32

@Aalvarino, never, removing passports was deemed to go against human rights before they ever removed one. The driving license was never really part of the plan.

ittakes2 · 23/05/2021 08:03

If your daughter has autism are you not eligible then to claim for disability money for her to cover things like you mentioned? Ie her nappy pants and special food? If you are in the U.K. you are?

forinborin · 23/05/2021 08:17

I get £1/month (voluntary, as official assessment is £nil).
We started with 50/50 care, but the father was so stressed that he managed a couple of weeks and then there was no contact for almost a year. Who knew that looking after babies is so difficult.
He still genuinely thinks we have 50/50 care (he sees them two times / month for lunch and a walk now). According to his calculations, after he deducts sleeping, study, childcare, breakfasts and dinners, dressing up, bath time, extracurriculars, playdates, travel time, homework etc - we are at almost 50/50 of the quality time, and that is what matters, right?

DinoHat · 23/05/2021 09:18

It’s not always fair, but it’s not always fair on anyone and perspective is a big issue too.

I’m always surprised by RP who have kids with a low earner then somehow expect them to pull funds out their arses for their DC, when a simple look at the maths shows you there just isn’t the money - yes I appreciate the RP might be the same. In which case the issue isn’t the amount of money mandated by CMS but the overriding factor is neither parents could afford to have kids in the first place and splitting up only serves to exacerbate that by having two sets of living/housing expenses.

OverTheRubicon · 23/05/2021 09:22

@Lili132

Foster parents often are not allowed to have a job.
The expenses quoted above are on top of the wages paid to foster parents, exactly because it's often hard or sometimes impossible to hold down a regular job while fostering. Because while fostering can be extremely challenging and undersupported, the authorities at least acknowledge that having a child significantly increases your weekly expenses in terms of food, clothing, housing, gifts and so many other things, in their estimate £167-235 per week (and many foster parents will tell you that this is still an underestimate).

So why is it so acceptable for working parents who have no overnights to be paying far less than half that in CM?

DinoHat · 23/05/2021 09:26

@OverTheRubicon you cannot compare housing foster kids, who are with you on a temporary basis to your children. That is like saying a restaurant can charge £15 for fish and chips so it must cost that much at home.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 09:39

@DinoHat

It’s not always fair, but it’s not always fair on anyone and perspective is a big issue too.

I’m always surprised by RP who have kids with a low earner then somehow expect them to pull funds out their arses for their DC, when a simple look at the maths shows you there just isn’t the money - yes I appreciate the RP might be the same. In which case the issue isn’t the amount of money mandated by CMS but the overriding factor is neither parents could afford to have kids in the first place and splitting up only serves to exacerbate that by having two sets of living/housing expenses.

It's incredibly unfair to say they couldn't afford kids in the first place. Running two separate homes is completely different than two people running one.
OverTheRubicon · 23/05/2021 09:40

[quote DinoHat]@OverTheRubicon you cannot compare housing foster kids, who are with you on a temporary basis to your children. That is like saying a restaurant can charge £15 for fish and chips so it must cost that much at home.[/quote]
Yes, and as a working parent, £167 a week wouldn't even cover half of my early years childcare for one child, let alone all the other costs of main residency, from a bigger house and car to clothes, food and more. Even older primary age kids can still need a lot in wraparound and holiday care, plus other extras grow as they do.

Yet some men are able to pay absolutely minimal amounts, and lessen it when they then go on to have more children (that they can't afford), or even more revoltingly, become.SAHPs or take on cash in hand only, so they can get away with paying nothing. If someone can work but chooses not to do anything to support their children, that should be classified as child neglect.

It's a bad thing for society that the children of single parents are more likely to end up underachieving their potential or more. But so much of this is caused by the children of single mothers being raised in poverty - enforcing better child support would help society, as well as individual children.

DinoHat · 23/05/2021 09:42

Absolutely - so why expect that the NRP can find more?

DinoHat · 23/05/2021 09:43

I don’t disagree with what you’ve said, but the points you’ve raised don’t actually tie in with foster children and the comparison made there.

Thatisnotwhatisaid · 23/05/2021 09:44

If they pay the bare minimum expected and don’t buy any extras plus barely see them then yeah, it’s definitely unfair. Sadly lots of men do this because they can get away with it. It’s so very wrong.

DinoHat · 23/05/2021 09:46

Foster children arrive on a temporary basis often with the clothes on their back. Unless your child’s wardrobe and belongings spontaneously combusts at irregular, frequent intervals you can’t compare.

Foster children have varying needs according to each child, which will be unpredictable, again unlike your own DC.

I’m not supporting fathers paying little or nothing. But foster kids vs your own are chalk and cheese.

VeganCheesePlease · 23/05/2021 09:51

Not always. My BiL has 2 sons with ex wife. He takes them at least 2 nights/3 days a week. Often it's more that that and if he's off work on annual leave he will take them a lot more. Without fail, every week he pays her maintenance which is always the same even if he has them more of the week than she does. He pays half of their school uniforms etc and has an entire wardrobe of clothes, toys etc for them at his house. If they're a deadbeat parent then I can see maintenance could be unfair on the RP.