To HATE my daughter smoking and not allow it on the balcony

[HateCigarettes]

We're in Southeast Asia (for context - always hot here!)
We live in a flat with a nice balcony with patio furniture off the living room, a not so nice but OK service balcony and small balconies off two of the bedrooms (mine and dh's room and my 14 year old DD2's room). My 17 year old DD1 does not have a balcony.

DD1 has started smoking a few months ago. I HATE it with a passion. My father died of lung cancer and I just hate everything to do with cigarettes. DD1 had some mental health issues and had been drinking, using weed and nitrous oxide too but this has now stopped thankfully but the cigarettes have remained. She's on about 10-20 a day, it's disgusting. Even worse, DD2 has also started and will sneak on to her balcony to smoke.

Anyway, DD1 has been forbidden from smoking on DD2's balcony. So she sits on our nice main balcony and puffs away. School is remote at the moment so she'll sit out there for hours smoking. This means we have to keep the doors shut and it's hot as no breeze so we have to turn on a/c earlier than we might do otherwise plus it wafts into my bedroom (I'm wfh too) so I have shut my window and then turn on a/c. Our balcony furniture smells, there's ash everywhere, the ashtray is always overflowing and no one else can sit on the balcony because she's alwys there smoking. I hate it.

If it were up to me, I'd not allow it and she could go down to the car park to smoke if she wanted to. I feel like we're facilitating her smoking. My DH believes she has the 'right' to smoke on the balcony and I'm being precious about it all. He also constantly says 'well, at least it's not weed/nitrous oxide/alcohol' which I don't feel is a valid argument. I feel very undermined and that I'm being bulldozed by both of them. They tell me I'm being controlling.

It kind of got to a head tonight when DD1 had a friend over who is a mutual friend with DD2 and also smokes. They went to DD2's room and locked the door. I got suspicious when they didn't answer when I knocked and opened with the spare key. THen I found DD2 smoking with DD1 and friend on her balcony. DD1 had offered DD2 a cigarette despite not being allowed to smoke there. So then DD1 and friend wanted to go and smoke on balcony and I got really angry because it's bad enough with DD1's smoking but after having given one to DD2, then I need to put up with DD1 and friend sitting out on balcony? So I told them no, DD1 goes to DH and tells him I said no and can he help, in the meantime I go to kitchen, come back and DD1 and friend on the balcony smoking. I go out and tell them that I don't agree and they can go to the car park. DD1 calls DH who says he think it's fine for them to smoke on the balcony.

I just feel really powerless to stop the smoking despite knowing how the damage it causes. But I wonder if it's an emotional reaction knowing how it killed my Dad with a painful and horrible early death. Am I being unreasonable and controlling? Or would you let your teen DDs smoke in this kind of situation (DH agrees we need to stop DD2 but it's so hard with DD1 constantly smoking)?

You're outnumbered

Escalating it isn't going to get anyone on your side.

It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. You will lose this conflict. Tread carefully

@araiwa

You're outnumbered

Escalating it isn't going to get anyone on your side.

It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. You will lose this conflict. Tread carefully

Yes, true. I definitely feel ganged up on.

Time to act smarter

What were you trying to achieve by removing the furniture from the balcony?

I'm not on DH's side, I personally disagree with him. But I understand where he's coming from because he thinks it's best she smokes if it prevents her from doing drugs or self harm. Maybe he genuinely thinks boundaries are where her issues stem from. So that's not really gas lighting if he genuinely believes his way is the best way. The same way you think your way is the best way (again - I personally agree your way is best) if you want to stay in your marriage I think you need to ask him to go for counselling. Explain that you are worried about dd1 and dd2, and aren't motivated by the bloody balcony but by their welfare and you need to both get on the same pages, whether that's your page his page or a nee page. I wonder is he currently motivated by fear.

There's a narrative in our household that me trying to instil boundaries is what causes DD1 to self harm. DH claims that this is what the psychiatrist told him and that he has to defend DD1 from me and my nefarious influence.

This sounds worse than the smoking. Do your daughters HEAR him saying this, or is just between the two of you? If the psychiatrist really did say this, you might consider switching DD1 to a different therapist, because this is inappropriate. And it would be very odd if the psychiatrist said something specific about a problem with your behaviour when you weren't there, and never discussed it with you. My guess is that your H either misunderstood something or is twisting (making up) this piece of information. I'd discuss it with the therapist - ideally WITH your H there and not your DD, at least initially. Not as a way to punish your H or show him up, but just to get everyone working on the same page with a proper therapist to get your daughter as well as she can be. Smoking as a comfort would be a short-term band-aid, if it can even be considered one at all.

RE he thinks they have equal rights to do what they want in the house, this doesn't work as a general "rule". Can each household member conduct some illegal and/or dangerous activity in the house? Blast music in the middle of the night? Bring home a pet or a long-term guest without discussion? No, because those things interfere with the well-being of others in the household. It sounds like neither you nor H have ever smoked, so you've always had a non-smoking house until DD1 started.

If smoke coming into the house makes you seriously uncomfortable, that's an argument for a rule that no one smokes in the flat or on the balconies, including all family members and guests. Or spruce up one of the other balconies so it's comfortable for DD1 to do what she wants. It's not reasonable for her to chain-smoke on the main one if that means others can't use it, and interferes with ventilating the flat.

This is the problem with standing your ground, as other posters have encouraged you to do. You’ve now backed yourself into a corner. Having a temper tantrum and moving the balcony furniture was totally the wrong move. As you’ve seen it’s just made the whole situation worse.

I’m also surprised at people encouraging you to leave. As you’ve said yourself your DDs will stay with your DH, you will be seen as even more of a “villain” and you’ll be lucky to salvage any relationship with them. You may hate smoking but it’s not worth losing your daughters over. Maybe other posters wouldn’t care about that but I know I would.

I think the first thing you need to do is take a step back and calm down. For your own sake. This seems to go way beyond the current issue at hand. It’s turned into you vs them and that needs to change somehow. A pp suggested family counselling, which would be the best move. But would they agree? If not I’d say start going for some counselling yourself. This will at least give you an outlet and might help you in finding ways you can communicate with your DH. Stop escalating it now. You’re not going to win. It doesn’t mean you’re wrong. I agree with you. But you need a different approach.

My god this would be my worst nightmare OP - wouldn't let anyone smoke near my house but especially not my child.
Your DH is the problem here and l would be having serious words with him.

YANBU, no way would I tolerate this, and if my DH was allowing it, I'd be packing my bags. Sounds like an overreaction but I hate smoking so much and couldn't live with that, plus being undermined by my husband.

No I totally understand you not wanting to leave your children, guarantee the 14yr old would be smoking full time within a week!
Do you have any family/friends you can speak to who would say something to your husband? Sounds like you need a 3rd party to break the stalemate between you both on this subject?

So a bit of a breakthrough. Dd has agreed to go to service balcony to smoke and will only smoke on the main balcony when no one is around or in living room. Not perfect but at least she understands how serious this is. I think I needed to do something drastic like remove the furniture to bring home how much I hate this and how bad it is for her. I'm hoping that if its not as comfortable and pleasant for her to sit there that she'll smoke less. Right now shes on 20 a day And she's acknowledged being totally in the wrong with dd2 and giving her a cigarette on her balcony and apologised for that. She's not a bad kid, she's struggling herself.
But problems with DH are far larger and deeper, this has illuminated that

I really very much feel for you. I think you framed this wrong: her smoking on the balcony or not is irrelevant. I would have a problem with her smoking at all, especially 20 a day. I have Disney dads and moms in my family, but they stop at giving the kids too much money or stuff; not actively encourage them to smoke.

I think you should see a counsellor or therapist to figure out a strategy. Perhaps DH may not come with you. Go on your own and try to figure out a plan to get him to support you and help DD. DDs own psychiatrist needs to be informed of her smoking. Can't she suggest a better way of dealing with stress?

Jesus your H sounds awful. Just awful. I really feel for you.

fwiw I agree, you are the parent, you ban smoking in your home. My dcs (teens) know that I will not tolerate them smoking in the house or garden, and as far as I know they don't smoke anywhere. we had 2 grandparents die of smoking related cancer too so they are pretty anti smoking.

I agree it's totally out of order for your dd2 to smoke. your H just has a completely weird damaging relationship with them.

Can you go to counselling on your own?

I actually think you can't parent with your H in the same house as you. It just isn't possible.

I think the problem is that it's very comfortable to sit on the balcony and smoke.
She goes out there with her laptop, sits on the comfy sofa and puffs away. I want to make it harder for her to smoke. Ideally I'd ban it all together - she wont be up and down to the car park 20 times a day. But at least if she has to now go out to the service balcony and sit there with the washing machine and cleaning stuff, she wont smoke as much.
Of course, I hate that she smokes at all but at 17 I can't stop it totally- but I don't have to facilitate it either.

HateCigarettes the breakthrough with dd sounds like brilliant news! As you say the main balcony is too comfortable and positively encourages her to smoke more. Smoking on the service balcony will feel far less sophisticated, glamorous, and comfortable - making it a bit inconvenient and seedy seeming is the right way to get her to naturally smoke less, though not stop. Fantastic that she acknowledged that she was in the wrong regarding her little sister..

Your DD isn't the problem is she, its your tool of a husband, but others are right that its best for your girls that you stay together and try to get him to couples or family counseling with you - the weird daddy and his princesses against nasty mummy dynamic he's engineering atm is so toxic!

@Meruem

This is the problem with standing your ground, as other posters have encouraged you to do. You’ve now backed yourself into a corner. Having a temper tantrum and moving the balcony furniture was totally the wrong move. As you’ve seen it’s just made the whole situation worse.

I’m also surprised at people encouraging you to leave. As you’ve said yourself your DDs will stay with your DH, you will be seen as even more of a “villain” and you’ll be lucky to salvage any relationship with them. You may hate smoking but it’s not worth losing your daughters over. Maybe other posters wouldn’t care about that but I know I would.

I think the first thing you need to do is take a step back and calm down. For your own sake. This seems to go way beyond the current issue at hand. It’s turned into you vs them and that needs to change somehow. A pp suggested family counselling, which would be the best move. But would they agree? If not I’d say start going for some counselling yourself. This will at least give you an outlet and might help you in finding ways you can communicate with your DH. Stop escalating it now. You’re not going to win. It doesn’t mean you’re wrong. I agree with you. But you need a different approach.

I agree with this. Although it feels unfair on you (because it is) the tactics you're using at the moment aren't working and won't work as long as your DH is in his current mindset. Don't make this one issue your hill to die on - make it a catalyst for trying to have a healthier family dynamic longer term.

@HateCigarettes

So a bit of a breakthrough. Dd has agreed to go to service balcony to smoke and will only smoke on the main balcony when no one is around or in living room. Not perfect but at least she understands how serious this is. I think I needed to do something drastic like remove the furniture to bring home how much I hate this and how bad it is for her. I'm hoping that if its not as comfortable and pleasant for her to sit there that she'll smoke less. Right now shes on 20 a day And she's acknowledged being totally in the wrong with dd2 and giving her a cigarette on her balcony and apologised for that. She's not a bad kid, she's struggling herself. But problems with DH are far larger and deeper, this has illuminated that

This sounds like a really good step - she sounds more mature than your husband tbh.

Be careful OP, your DH wants you out and he is ensuring the girls are on his side.
He's getting his ducks in a row.

Glad you had a small breakthrough, hopefully now you have an agreement about the smoking you can build the relationship with DD without that hanging over you.
Who knows what other normal parental rules your husband will think of next to accuse you of bullying about?

@Cactusesi

Be careful OP, your DH wants you out and he is ensuring the girls are on his side. He's getting his ducks in a row.

I don't think so. He's not manipulative like that and we've been together more than 20 years! This is an ongoing problem regarding discipline, boundaries and appropriate parenting which has come to a head with the smoking.

I know it's only a small compromise but make a real fuss of your DD for her mini breakthrough - undermine your DHs narrative that you are the bad guy.

Why are you with your husband? He's vile to you. He doesn't care what you went through with your dad, he undermines you, he tells you it's your fault your daughter self harms, he calls you controlling.
Actually your daughter is self harming because smoking will harm her. However as he's such a dick he won't listen to reason.
If it was me I'd walk away and take your youngest with you. He doesn't give a stuff about anyone's health.
At 17 stopping her smoking will be impossible because her dad will always allow it. So as he's happy to live in a smoke filled environment and pay for AC constantly he can do it on his own.
You and your youngest can live somewhere with clean air and somewhere where you aren't treated like dirt.

@Pedalpushers

I know it's only a small compromise but make a real fuss of your DD for her mini breakthrough - undermine your DHs narrative that you are the bad guy.

Yes, I did - also because I do appreciate her trying despite having DH allowing her free rein. And I think new strategy is working. DD smoked far less yesterday. About 5pm she ASKED if she could sit on nice balcony with her (non smoking thankfully) boyfriend and have a cigarette. She told me this would only be her second cigarette of the day. It seemed churlish to say no - at the end of the day, what I want more than anything is for her cut down and ideally stop and not have a power battle. I high fived her ofr having smoked so little and told her I was proud of her, thanked her for asking first and told her it would be fine but just for one cigarette and not to stay out there chain smoking which she agreed.

It's strange how he doesn't seem to be remotely inclined to discourage your daughter from smoking.

@BadLad

It's strange how he doesn't seem to be remotely inclined to discourage your daughter from smoking.

Obviously he doesn't like it. But a) He never enforces boundaries, he's always been very soft b) He sees this as better than the illegal stuff she was doing before and that this prevents her from self harming. Which I think is a completely fucked up way of thinking.

I see that. Turning a blind eye is one thing, but he seems to be doing his best to make it as easy as possible for her to smoke. Which I think is strange. Him, not you.