Financial situation of in laws

[isthisgreedyofme]

I am writing this to vent and to try to get my head around it.

Been happily married to DH for 15 years, we're in our 40s. Like a lot of people our age, we are doing just about OK for money. Keeping up with the mortgage, childcare costs, etc. is a struggle to be honest, but we scrimp and save, make do, and keep our heads above water. DH has a sort of slightly above averagely paid job; I don't earn enough to pay tax (I run my own business and though I work really hard, it's not going at all well over the pandemic, but that's another story).

Over the years, our in laws have more or less a succession of large presents from us. Things like weekends away at expensive historic properties to celebrate landmark birthdays, large presents, parties etc. We've have had to scrimp and save to do this, and the effort involved hasn't always been appreciated (my MIL complained that the very nice cottage we'd let for her 70th birthday wasn't grand enough). The effort isn't reciprocated - they don't do the same back for us. We also do a lot to help them out in practical terms, which again is not reciprocated.

What is more, they are downright tight in their attitude to money on a more everyday basis, asking us to pay for meals out, drinks, and never donating to charity or good causes. They never give anything that they own away, unless it's broken or junk and more or less worthless, even though their houses is over-full of valuable belongings (there are literally things piled on things in every room to the point that it borders on hoarding).

I've always assumed they were asset-rich but money-poor and been willing to make sacrifices to ensure they have a good time. But I've recently found out that this is not true and that they are actually cash millionnaires. They have over £1.1 million in the bank in ISA-type investments (they are very risk averse), they own a £500k house, and another bungalow without a mortgage. They also have very generous pensions, especially considering that they both gave up work in their 40s plus income from their second house, which they let. Altogether, they have far more coming in than we do, plus this immense cash reserve as a safety net.

This has come out becuase we have been dealing with solicitors recently due to a legal issue they have and the solicitor told them that they might want to consider estate planning to reduce inheritance tax. They said right in front of us that they don't want to do this because they don't know how much they will need for care costs, and they come first. They didn't even stop to think about us, or about BIL (who is financially in a similat position to us). They have form for this - they are very, very self-centred.

AIBU to think they are just really mean? Or am I being grabby in thinking that?

Their wealth isn't from careers - in fact, FIL couldn't cope with his low-level civil service job at all, which is why he retired in his late 40s. They were able to do so because they both inherited from multiple family members. They are now in their mid 70s, so we assumed that most of that money had gone on paying for their lifestyle for the past 25 year or so, hence the "Oh we must help them out" attitude.

Your/Your partners choice with the lavish gifts, and continue with them for fifteen years.
If you chose not to get the message that they weren't appreciated and hold back on your discretionary spending, it's hardly their fault.
Thinking about future care home costs is a sensible approach.

What does your partner think about it? Are you similarly generous to your own parents?

Why on Earth are you giving them a succession of expensive gifts? Honestly, if you scrimp and save for these and get nothing in return, more fool you. Imagine the lovely weekends you and your OH could have if you didn’t.

I would rather my parents have a wonderful later life and be able to pay for any care they might need. You’ll still get an inheritance from them, it’s just they don’t want to start estate planning to reduce inheritance tax. Maybe you’ll only get 250,000 instead of 350,000.
I think you are being grabby.

@Xiaoxiong Exactly! And I come from a family where you just don't ask for help unless you really need it! Asking means that the need is probably greater than is being stated, in fact! So I'm blown sideways by this.

Are there any cultural expectations atbplay?

Eg in some cultures it is the expectation that the children will provide for the adults, even if they cannot afford to.

Gosh - you wonder if some people read anything other than the first sentence of an OP before posting!!

The OP doesn't give a shit about inheriting. She was led to believe the ILs were as skint as she and her DH are, and helped them out. Now she finds out they're loaded, she feels they used her time and generosity unfairly, and rightly so.

@Dishwashersaurous they are white middle class British! But in my family culture, as I said above, you would never ask someone to do something for you that you could do yourself - it would be seen as entitled.

I have to go - I have a work meeting online at 5! I didn't want to vanish without thanking everyone for the comments, criticism, and advice for ways forward. I feel much calmer and more certain about our future course now. Venting has really helped put this into perspective.

And especial for those who have been so sympathetic and lovely. And for those who have shared their experiences of going through something painfully similar. I really appreciate it particularly as I know it can sometimes revive the pain to write about it. So thank you, I do appreciate it.

Pfft, the OP didn’t think they were poor pensioners @Xiaoxiong, poor pensioners don’t have a 500,000 house AND another bungalow so don’t give me that. Poor pensioners would sell and downsize if money was an issue.

Fifthtimelucky has given you the perfect out. A good long break from them is warranted. I’d probably push off in the morning.

My BIL is the golden child and as a result is a spoilt, entitled prick. It took a lot of me putting firm boundaries for my DH to stop topping up his disastrous financial behaviour. The ‘little brother’ schtick got really old once he hit his mid 30s

I voted YABU but only partly think this

It's pretty likely they don't know about your own financial position if you've never discussed it.

I said YABU as you shouldn't have spent money you don't have or struggle with without saying no or stopping doing so. You just need to be a bit more honest / open that you can't afford something.

@isthisgreedyofme

The more I read your replies, the more I agree with you. It IS their money. It is absolutely their choice what they do with it.

But also: it's my time and labour here, spend doing gardening, helping with form-filling, doing admin that takes literally days on end (we are currently on a visit where DH has spent literally 3 days of his annual leave trying to straighten out their affairs because they are too busy playing and enjoying themselves with friends to get down to being organised so we have to step in). They can absolutely pay for professionals to come in and do all this in future.

God they sound awful and so self absorbed and are taking ye for mugs. Please take a giant step back, stop doing these support tasks, minimal and affordable presents and if they insist on extravagant holiday homes, restaurants etc they can pay for them

@BurningBright

I would be going down the route of taking inspiration from their approach.

I.e. they don't know how much they will need for care costs, and they come first.

Tell them that gave you a lightbulb moment. You're in the same situation. You don't know how much you'll need for care costs either, so from now on you come first and you'll be saving every penny of your hard-earned cash to protect your own futures. Which means no more expensive gifts, no more paying for meals and drinks other than your own, etc.

Thank them for showing you the way...

@BurningBright - you say it tongue in cheek but this is a seriously important point. While I was skivvying away for free for my parents I worked out I lost a month's income each year because I was over with them, running errands. Meanwhile I had zero savings. Nothing at all, because as fast as money came in, we needed to spend it. Now I think, I need to put money away. I don't want DC paying for me.

To be fair to them, though, they have finally succumbed to needing residential care and it is a huge relief to us that they can afford it.

I've voted yabu only because you're unreasonable for caring a shit what these people think of you. No more gifts like previously, followers/chocolate/wine is fine for Xmas and birthday and they never appreciated expensive weekends away anyway.

Fine they can keep their assets for their care in future, I have no problem with that and wouldn't expect cash help from them anyway. They can also pay for gardeners/decorators/accountants etc.

Time to start looking after yourselves. I can only assume in their defence (like a lot of self centered people) that you could easily afford it and wanted to do it for them, if that isn't the case then you need to stop, now!

First, I'd try to keep it light, as much as possible. It's easy to read in all sorts of meaning and intentions that may not be there at all.

Of course people don't usually do things aimed at hurting us. This elderly couple is most likely simply following the same financial habits they've had for many years, likely originating from a time when those financial habits made perfect sense and now engrained. And they may also just a bit kooky; who isn't? :)

Anyway, it seems to me this does need to be changed but could be easily be resolved in a friendly, drama-free fashion. These folks may not even be around that much longer so easy does it.

Your husband seems reasonable so why not just sit down and hash out together what changes you'll both be happy with and how you'll implement those changes.

Then, whenever it fits, have him mention them to his parents in a nice way that doesn't place blame. Such as telling them that you went to a financial planner and aren't on track quite as well as you should be at this point, so you'll have to cut back on things like gifts and other non-necessary expenses.

And don't discuss it with them any further than that. This may be best done on the phone so he can get off quickly if they say anything beyond telling him that they understand. (I say "he" because in my experience, it seems to turn out so much nicer when the blood relative handles it).

I'd also discuss tightening up your limits on time and effort spent helping your in-laws. Then, decide what you're going to tell them the next time they ask for something that's more than what the two of you want to do. Please let us know how it goes.

I quite like the saying ‘give to givers, take from takers’ and try to live by that.

The effort isn't reciprocated - they don't do the same back for us.

So stop.

They are right to keep their money in preparation for care. The cost of care is enormous and I'm sure you don't want to take on that financial burden! I, and several relatives, footed the bill for a grandparent's care and it nearly broke us all financially but was completely necessary - grandparent could not have been cared for at home.
If you can't afford to give the lavish gifts and experiences then just don't do it. Explain to them that you cannot afford to book a cottage or whatever but you are happy to host of birthday party for them at home instead. Up to you what you offer, up to them what they give in return.

They’re keeping funds for the ‘care’ they anticipate needing as they age.

Ok, but clearly from your posts (long visits up to every 6 weeks!) they are well into the time of needing a reasonable amount of practical support. Presumably gardening, cleaning, sorting stuff out etc.

If so, then it sounds like it’s time they started using some of those funds to care for themselves then.

If they would like to maintain their current living standards and accommodation then they can pay for gardeners, cleaners etc to do the things they can no longer do. Surely, that’s just the lightest measure of ‘care’ assistance, really?

Presumably your husband will inherit some or all of their fortune. Don't do anything to alienate your in laws!

@Vikingintraining

They are right to keep their money in preparation for care. The cost of care is enormous and I'm sure you don't want to take on that financial burden! I, and several relatives, footed the bill for a grandparent's care and it nearly broke us all financially but was completely necessary - grandparent could not have been cared for at home. If you can't afford to give the lavish gifts and experiences then just don't do it. Explain to them that you cannot afford to book a cottage or whatever but you are happy to host of birthday party for them at home instead. Up to you what you offer, up to them what they give in return.

Yes but some of the money they are keeping for care they are able to do so because their children and in laws are using their time and resources to do things for them that they could and should be paying other people to do. If it was purely money involved it would be one thing, but it seems they are totally taking the piss in terms of their wider expectations of their offspring. It would particularly grind my gears that much of their accumulated wealth came from inheritance, not hard work or personal sacrifice. They have just been bloody lucky and instead of sharing that or even paying their fair share they are actively hoarding it.

they invited me as a guest and then sprung it on me that I was expected to make and serve drinks all evening straight out of Fleabag!

Entitled, CF behaviour, but the scales have fallen from your eyes and in 1 day you've suddenly got a lot more disposable income and time! They're such idiots. Hoisted by their own petard.

Use my salutary tale.

Family member hoardes money as afraid of care costs. Story sounds similar.

When they entered care their generous occupational pension was actually substantial enough to pay the costs entirely and leave a little extra for incidentals for the naice nursing home chosen so we only needed to touch their capital to maintain their house until we could sell it.

In the event an amount greater than the cost of a one bed flat went in inheritance tax due to their failure to estate plan.

I’m very sure this is not what our relative would have wanted. They had just failed to keep abreast of what care actually cost.

The very rich don’t pay inheritance tax. Only middle class mugs who don’t listen to professional advice.

Ugh, they sound just like my partner's parents. Cash wealthy, own a house worth nearly a mil, act like they are one step out of the workhouse. Have never suffered financially in their whole lives, either of them. Both retired, late 60s, both in good health, they have no hobbies and do absolutely nothing but sit on their arses all day moaning about EVERYTHING. Horrible to be around for any length of time as they are just so overwhelmingly negative. FIL (called that for brevity's sake) once didn't talk to his own brother for a solid year when he found out the brother had spent £10 less than he had on their Christmas presents to each other...seriously.

In their desperate desire to get work done for the cheapest price possible they've been ripped off by various tradesmen numerous times in the last decade, always resulting in having to have the work redone. Still haven't learnt...

Yes they are mean spirited so I would not give more than you afford to both in time and money. We are retired and have less than your PIL but give regular cash gifts to our daughters and take them on holiday etc. It would never occur to us to sit on a big pile of cash in case we need it for care fees when it can be enjoyed and shared. We have enough and most young people find life expensive with high housing and childcare costs. My mum did the same with us and is very generous.