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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Head teacher modelling domestic violence

118 replies

NoSleepforAYear · 20/05/2021 11:28

First post in a very long while, although I always read lots I'm not very active on here. (All discussions seem to be over by the time I read through them). Very long, but don't want to drop feed.
DD is in year 5, small village school, lovely community feel etc. 1 boy in the class is very physical, nice lad, doesn't know his own strength, rough and tumble etc. Over the years he's hurt her many times, but I don't believe there's any malice in it, always just advised DD to make teacher aware and they're all friends again next day. Incident again this week that has been escalated to school because of some other issues, DD taken aside by HT and explained that he probably does it because he likes her a lot and doesn't know how to express that. Am I completely over reacting thinking that conversations like these belong in the dark ages? Surely this is saying "it's ok for him to hit you if he loves you?" Happy to hear that I'm being over sensitive and need to chill, but really concerned that opinions like this are why women are still living in violent relationships because it's been ingrained in them that this is just how it works.
Thank you if you read to the end, I don't want to kick up a fuss if I'm in the wrong here.

OP posts:

maskface212 · 20/05/2021 12:49

'A special secret' sounds like grooming language. This teacher needs further training on how to speak to children. It is not acceptable under any circumstances, for anyone to lay a hand on you. That is the message that should be being enforced. I'd want to know why they have colluded with this boy's aggression and what is being taught here. What lessons are being learned? That it's ok for a boy to express himself physically and a girl should put up with it because it means he likes her. They can get to fuck.

vdbfamily · 20/05/2021 12:52

I had exactly this at primary school with my now 18 year old. Troubled boy that had been excluded from another school and she told me months later that he was hitting her on a daily basis and when she told the teacher she was told it was because he liked her and was trying to get her attention!! I was furious. As you say, what a poor message.

Thirtyrock39 · 20/05/2021 12:54

Op we had this when my daughter was in reception and year one. I'm also non confrontational and we were always fobbed off that they were friends and he was just getting carried away etc etc
Annoyingly it took a very confrontational dad going in to complain of another girl that became a target for school to take it seriously and then they really acted on it
Frustratingly you may have to channel your inner lion ness here to get results

GelfBride · 20/05/2021 12:55

I would go stratospheric about this because there is so much wrong. It sounds like all responsibility for this boys behaviour is being abdicated. If he is hurting other children his behaviour needs to curbed and punished if it doesn't stop, not 'understood' with some archaic bullshit like this. Fucks sake!

unim · 20/05/2021 13:02

"It doesn't matter what his intentions were, what matters is the impact of his actions on my daughter".

mayblossominapril · 20/05/2021 13:07

I initially read that your daughter was 5 and thought there can be reception/year one children with SEN and so some aspects of their behaviour is the same as 2 or 3 year old. But year 5 so rising 10. If he's able to be in main stream school he can understand!

HamAlive · 20/05/2021 13:07

I would not be happy with that. My youngest son was continually set upon by a a couple of girls in his class who would paw at him, hug, kiss, chase and smack him and he was really upset by it all as they wouldn't leave him alone. This was dismissed as they were girls, they clearly just liked him and they were only young. I was fuming as I felt if it was a boy-on-girl situation they wouldn't have been so dismissive. And I get they are young but they need to be taught. I've always taught my boys you do not touch anyone without their permission.

I'd ask for a meeting with the HT to discuss all these "miscommunications" and if you don't get a satisfactory response I'd follow the school's policy on where to escalate your concerns to, usually governors. I'm sure that their PSHE should cover what a healthy relationship looks like and what the HT is saying is opposite to that.

unim · 20/05/2021 13:07

The problem is that the teacher is centring this boy and his feelings. But he needs to be centring your daughter, and the impact on her.

unim · 20/05/2021 13:08

"How will you be safeguarding my daughter? What specific actions will be taken to reduce the risk of her being hurt again?"

Straighttalking1 · 20/05/2021 13:16

I'd also be surprised and angry that the HT is normalising this without suggesting a meeting with the boy and his parents to put and end to this. By year 5 I'm sure they are educated about respecting each others' personal space. Also, not being funny or anything, are you sure that your daughter isn't fond of him and encouraging any attention Either way, a meeting with his parents is well overdue. This is not acceptable.

Purpletomato · 20/05/2021 13:17

We also had the headteacher telling the children that they shouldn't tell parents anything that they did at school. Honestly wonder if some people just sleep through safeguarding training!

We've also had to deal with school trying to force kids to be special friends with kids who hurt them repeatedly. I feel that sets girls up to tolerate DV too. It's an awful message, we know that women are generally attacked multiple times before leaving a violent relationship, being able to walk away from people who hurt you is important.

Laiste · 20/05/2021 13:19

this week ... DD taken aside by HT and explained that he probably does it because he likes her a lot and doesn't know how to express that.

I had a conversation with the head yesterday and she mentioned a bit of a love/hate relationship but when DD came home from school she told me HT said "this is a special secret, but I think"....

HT says original comment along the lines of "you mustn't keep running home and telling your parents" was definitely misunderstood, by both children.

comment regarding telling tales out of school was from the safe guarding lead....

What's the time line here? When did safe guarding lead speak to DD?

Covert19 · 20/05/2021 13:20

@unim

"It doesn't matter what his intentions were, what matters is the impact of his actions on my daughter".

This is the perfect rebuttal to the statement that he's doing it "because he likes you".

To be fair to the boy in this situation - he is only a child himself, who is not fully accountable for his own actions, and is the product of his own upbringing. To liken him to a perpetrator of DV is a little harsh, in my opinion.

There's nothing wrong in telling children that other children who are unable to process or understand their own feelings might act out in aggressive ways towards others. It's not the same as excusing the behaviour, and can be a powerful way of handling bullying. To see the bully as weak and deficient in some way can give the victim inner power to withstand or even prevent another attack. I was so proud of my DD, then aged about 6, when she saw a bully push her older brother off a bouncy castle - she looked him in the eye and said, "you push other children around because it makes you feel big, but really it means you are small." That's the message I hear when somebody says "he's doing it because he likes you". Not an excuse, but an explanation.

However, it's too often used by schools to brush aside the undesirable behaviour rather than confront it, as seems to be the case in the OP.

As for the teacher telling your daughter not to go running home telling tales - awful example to be setting. My nephew had a teacher say this to him (he was upset that he'd not been picked for a school team). At the time I said it sounded like something a paedophile would say, and shortly afterwards the teacher who had said it was convicted of having sex with a minor (not my nephew). I would be concerned about an adult using this line to cover up their own deficiencies - have they used it in other, more sinister circumstances?

Chipsahoy · 20/05/2021 13:20

What the heck? I have three boys. I’d want to know if it were mine. I am totally into gentle parenting and attachment parenting but oh boy would they know about it if they acted this way!

Go higher than head.

CloudPop · 20/05/2021 13:22

This is outrageous. I don't blame you for being angry. Absolutely disgraceful

merryhouse · 20/05/2021 13:23

The only way this could possibly be acceptable would be if the HT suspected that your daughter was beginning to question to herself "why me? what's wrong with me? what am I doing wrong?" - and it's simply a reiteration to her that she's not doing anything wrong, she's simply being a nice attractive person. (the stress that this was not something to be shared with the rest of the class I think lends weight to this interpretation)

It would, of course, need to be partnered with "obviously he's going about it in entirely the wrong way [which is something we all have to look out for when we're older] and that will have to be dealt with by us as usual"; which doesn't appear to have been stressed at the same time.

The other teacher's comment is entirely unacceptable.

Original poster

NoSleepforAYear · 20/05/2021 13:24

@Laiste

this week ... DD taken aside by HT and explained that he probably does it because he likes her a lot and doesn't know how to express that.

I had a conversation with the head yesterday and she mentioned a bit of a love/hate relationship but when DD came home from school she told me HT said "this is a special secret, but I think"....

HT says original comment along the lines of "you mustn't keep running home and telling your parents" was definitely misunderstood, by both children.

comment regarding telling tales out of school was from the safe guarding lead....

What's the time line here? When did safe guarding lead speak to DD?

The safe guarding lead is the teacher that took them out of class and had a conversation about not needing to tell their parents everything that goes on in school.

OP posts:

Hankunamatata · 20/05/2021 13:31

Special secret - OMG, wrong wrong

How does he hurt her? Does he lack boundries? Does dd want to say with him?

I'd want to know about their dynamic in school. If he cant play without hurting then he needs 1:1 support to intervene

GoodbyePorpoiseSpit · 20/05/2021 13:36

I would write it all down, send a copy to the governors (it’s a clear safeguarding training gap!) and request a meeting with HT and governor and take a third party with you- does the school have a family liaison officer? Or you can approach the local authority and explain the issue and ask for support. They have fucked up here both with handling the original complaint and with your DD.

Muchasgracias · 20/05/2021 13:36

Safeguarding lead and HT are trampling all over your DD’s boundaries and I’d let rip about that.

And using language like special secret is way way off...like you I’d lose all faith.

Thelnebriati · 20/05/2021 13:37

You can raise a complaint about safeguarding in schools online;

contact.ofsted.gov.uk/online-complaints-schools

Laiste · 20/05/2021 13:38

The safe guarding lead is the teacher that took them out of class and had a conversation about not needing to tell their parents everything that goes on in school.

Do you know what? I'm more shocked about that tbh.

The HT telling your DD that 'he's clumsy but he likes you' ect ect is wrong, and misguided, and needs addressing.

But this ''don't tell parents everything'' business is AWFUL!

As with all complaints to the school - first write it all down.
Who said what to whom and when.
Ask to come back into school to address your concerns.
Advise that you will be outlining your concerns in an email before the meeting.
Take notes at the meeting.
Ask for the schools summery of the meeting to be put in an email to you and reply with your conclusions/intentions.
If you're still not happy take it all higher.

Laiste · 20/05/2021 13:39

@GoodbyePorpoiseSpit

This is good advice.

ArabellaScott · 20/05/2021 13:39

a special secret?! WTF?

Namechangedforthistoday · 20/05/2021 13:40

I think the HT has thrown the safeguarding manual out of the window

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